The Supreme Court Basketball Podcast
Looking for entertaining basketball content without the drama? Check out The Supreme Court: A Basketball Podcast! Join Robaire, Chris, and Henri every Wednesday for the latest NBA headlines, news, and transactions.
The Supreme Court Basketball Podcast
Viva Los Lakers!
This week's episode explores the complexities of Las Vegas, which is now attempting to reinvent itself as a family-friendly destination. Join us as we share personal stories from our latest trips and discuss the Lakers' recent dominant performance against the Denver Nuggets.
- Exploring the deeper charm of Las Vegas and its history
- Sharing family experiences and evolving dynamics in Vegas
- Discuss the Lakers' win that broke their losing streak and was their first victory against Denver since 2023.
- Examining Luka's near triple-double
- Questioning if Luka Doncic has settled into his role
- Nostalgically reminisce about what might have been for some of the NBA's biggest rising stars if their careers hadn't been affected by injuries
- Considering the potential cultural and global impact of some of basketball's greatest "what-ifs."
Don’t forget to follow us on our social media platforms and visit our website for more insights and episodes!
Thanks for listening!
All rise. What a blessing the pod is back in session. Welcome to another episode of the Supreme Court, a basketball podcast where we discuss all things basketball life and anything else we see fit. I serve as one of the three who keeps this thing running. I'm chris. I got my brothers with me and I'm henry.
Speaker 2:I'm sure y'all know that by now, or at least I hope y'all do right, right, right.
Speaker 3:You know this is big bear. What's going on with y'all?
Speaker 1:nothing man. Another week, another pod how's?
Speaker 2:everything going, anything good happen since we last talked no, just like I said coming back to vegas, or, you know, I wouldn't say over the weekend, but we got home by the weekend. That was about it, man. Only thing new with the fam, you know, like I said, letting the kids see the sights and the sounds of the city, that one of the cities that never sleep in this country. That was about it for me, man sounds.
Speaker 1:You sound vegas wasn't, wasn't it huh?
Speaker 2:I don't want to speak disparagingly of the city, because there's nothing wrong with Vegas at all. It's just not my vibe. My kids didn't really enjoy it. Again, if you ain't there for the debauchery, you ain't there for the hedonism, you ain't there for what Vegas is for it's an adult playground. There's no way I was telling a guy that worked there who was born in California, like most people in Vegas, because it is kind of a transplant city. Right, there was a time I remember going to.
Speaker 2:Vegas back in the early 2000s and most of the license plates would be California license plates. Now those same Californians have just full-fledged moved to Nevada, like all together, and you don't see as many California plates as you once did. But he was telling me he used to enjoy coming out, him and his father, and enjoying the vegas nightlife. Um, but he was like, yeah, it started to get crazy in the last 10 years or so. They them just charging you for any and everything, like the parking being 20 25 dollars to park at any resort or a casino, and it was like I'm coming here to spend money.
Speaker 1:You can't even validate me like come on, I never thought you would pay for parking in vegas, of all places. Yeah, it's insane what those? Numbers look like the number of people you got coming through there. 25 bucks a pop, I mean that's that might rival hotel fees for some of these smaller hotels. Perhaps that's how they recoup and offset the cost of business being lost.
Speaker 2:That's got to be what it is, because just for parking and and the lots are pretty full, people paying 20, 25 bucks a pop to park, people still coming you really don't have a choice. Dude, it's insane man Ain't no way, I'm sorry. Like I said, we were talking about Vegas trying to clean its reputation up and be more family-friendly and more inclusive, but it's just. You can't outrun that past man. Vegas is what it is and it will be what it'll be. You can't write a new script for that place not with them.
Speaker 1:Prices not where every nah yeah, you're right, even with, like the family friendly stuff. I remember one time we took the kids and we were walking somewhere and it's a dude handing out cards like here you go, and I was like, bro, this is a child.
Speaker 2:What are you about to do? These are children. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:You're about to hand this to a five-year-old, a six-year-old, yeah, yeah, you tripping. What were you about to say, bear?
Speaker 3:No, I mean, that's going to deter some of us because, you know, I think that means that it's official, that las vegas has officially gotten away from like getting some of the benefits of it. Like when you think about food, when you think about you know, like I said, just to pull up to a hotel and go to another casino so you can go and play after there's a 25 minimum fee, like that'll stop me from going. You know, that's one of the things, because you, you figured the parking is free, you're going to spend all this money, and now they're nickel and dime. I don't know if that's because they, you know they're paying for those stadiums. There's a lot of stuff going on, so now they have to find other ways to get, you know, revenue.
Speaker 2:I don't know but there's no way. That used to be the budget town where you're gonna have fun on it on the low.
Speaker 3:That's my point, right, not anymore, not anymore. Not the food, not the not. I mean they're gonna get rid of all the smaller hotels and but I guess you figure what all the sports you know? You got baseball out there, you got hockey they've become la yeah, well, that's the difference. Just wait until basketball, because that's the difference. Just wait until basketball, because that's coming too.
Speaker 2:Just wait until basketball hits, you know, and so you know what's crazy when you say that I didn't even consider, that I forget. The last time I'd been to vegas might have been like 2013 or something like it was well over 10 years ago they didn't have anything.
Speaker 3:They didn't have any.
Speaker 2:They didn't have any franchises. Now they've become a full-fledged major league scene. They got everything but a basketball team. They have women's basketball. Let's not discount that, because they've actually been quite a draw, because the Aces have been balling.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, They've been balling.
Speaker 2:But I mean you got the Golden Knights, you got the Raiders Vegas has done to the Bay Area, with the Bay Area once they did the philly and taking all their teams back in the 60s um, but now it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is crazy like and again, they'll have the a's coming soon. I don't know, I don't know where they're playing interim, but um, there was that and we were discussing that too. Like it for vegas, vegas now be a major town and major league, like a major sports franchise franchise type of town. You would think there would be more stuff for family, that that you would think that would kind of draw people out to move there. But and it has. But again, you know I I loved it the first time going there because I was back when I was went there last I was still, you know, I was drinking, I wouldn't say heavily, but I was. You know I I don't drink anymore at all, but back then when I was going in and we go walking to a circus, circus and you get like a beer for like a dollar 25 and I'm like getting three and four beers at a time walking around the strip, it was like the flyest shit in the world. Like this is cool like damn like this is really a playground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you went to a laker game that you, it'd be the price of eight, nine beers easily.
Speaker 2:But now it's like I don't drink anymore, so I don't have that going for me. You know what I mean. Like so I'm not about to sit back by a slot machine. Let them bring me drinks all day while I blow hundreds and thousands of dollars sitting there doing nothing like it ain't even got that going again, I don't. I'm not gambling. If I do, I might play 20, 25 bucks max.
Speaker 3:They're trying to change right, but that that, that lure, that vegas had the budget town, you go out. If you make it out there, the rest will take care of itself, type deal, like it's right. You know that was the idea of that, you know, and try to make it family friendly because they're trying to obviously bring new people into the fold. You know new. You know we're talking about the homes and everything out there. It's, you know, I don't know if it's even feasible, like what the cost of living even out there. You know every time you go to vegas it's even feasible. Like what the cost of living even out there. You know, every time you go to Vegas it's like one more added thing they're adding on, like you could see, and I guess that comes with big city growth.
Speaker 2:You know, like yeah, they are fledgling cities have to accept it. Yeah, yeah, they're fledgling.
Speaker 3:Again it's majorly now it's like
Speaker 1:yeah, if you're moving out there, what you're getting is sort of what you look like even here. We're based in California, you know, spread out a little bit, but it's the same thing you're getting here now. When you used to move to the IE 20 years ago, you were getting a dirt cheap home and you were getting a ton of land and you were getting, you know, all the amenities, all the space and everything. What you're getting now is you're getting a larger house, but you're going to pay seven $800,000 for a house now in Riverside and Corona and some of these places where before it was like that's 350.
Speaker 1:And don't forget and that was the appeal- you literally pay for more of what you want, but what you're giving up is distance, because most people are still commuting. Yeah, going down that 91, which is a nightmare, I don't care what time of day it is, but.
Speaker 1:I think Vegas is kind of getting in that same lane. My first trip to Vegas was when I was 12, and it was for a family reunion. I'll never forget it. We stayed at Circus Circus and I remember hot dog 50 cents hot dog and a drink. It was like Costco prices for food steak and eggs $9.99, full on dinner and I'm like I remember looking up and asking my dad how is this possible? Because to me I'm like what's wrong with this food? And he's like that's not the point.
Speaker 1:The point is to get these parents to gamble. So if you're putting money into food, you're not putting it into the machines. You can come here, try and win it big and eat like a king for a minimal price. So even if you, like you said, hey, I'm throwing twenty five dollars and you got a good, legit steak, high quality dinner for a fraction of you can walk around. There was always something to do. We stayed at Circus Circus. I'll never forget. We had money coming, we had a kid's room, we had money coming from all angles, and that's when I was like Vegas is the place to be acrobatic. You know. I got people swinging around in the middle of an arcade. This, this is a magic place and I think we grew up with some of that nostalgia and love for what it was. But as you continue to move down the line, it's like, hey, you going to vegas? I hear people talking about like hey, room rates ain't that bad, it's only 300 a night. What?
Speaker 1:only what we talk yeah, I'm like that's how we're in condition for a weekend. Yeah, yeah, I'm like 300, that's how we've been conditioned to wear it For a weekend. Yeah, I'm like $300 a night For a weekend. That's not too bad, that's a bargain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got about for two days about $500. We paid At a decent hotel, the Sahara. It was like again, it was on the Strip but away from the main action. But you know still on the.
Speaker 2:Strip but away from the main action. But you know, still on the Strip, still a nice little resort. They renovated it. It's really nice. You stayed I want to say the Blanca Tower or even the Mara Tower. But it was really nice Beautiful rooms, great amenities. But again, it's just like if you don't stay on the resort itself, it starts to add up. The only problem with that place is I didn't like any of the food options. Like their dining options weren't what I was, none of us were really into. So that was like you got to leave, you know. But luckily again I will say that was one of the few resorts that does offer free valet, so that was a plus. That was helpful at that point. Yeah, vegas is transformed a lot, but I couldn't help driving past Allegiant Stadium Like, yeah, well, maybe we'll come back here for a Raider game. I'm sure Robert would appreciate that.
Speaker 3:But I was thinking about that. Oh, it's a beautiful stadium. It's beautiful, it's great From the outside it's got the curb appeal.
Speaker 2:Allegiant Stadium is crazy. They got the sphere, which is cool. The kids got a kick out of that. They got the sphere, which is cool, the kids got a kick out of that. That was dope. I love that. I got to try that experience one time. I think we were trying to go to the Golden Steer but they were so booked up it was crazy. It was one of the top stake houses in Vegas. But yeah, man, it was.
Speaker 3:Get that old school.
Speaker 1:If it's your thing, it's still the place to be. Put some of that on a docket and kind of bring that back for the folks to see what our trip would be like Well, I definitely got to go there with a plan in mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got to go like four and a half. I don't want to be in Vegas for anything else, because I'm not about to be gambling, I'm not drinking, I'm not clubbing, I'm not enjoying the nightlife.
Speaker 3:I do want to try the different restaurants. I too restaurants a difference. I. I too, want to try the golden steer, because I keep hearing like that is the best steak for it's for the dollar, it's an old school steakhouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the rat pack ate there, elvis, yeah, it's one of the old favorites of old. How old las vegas?
Speaker 3:yeah, it looked really good homemade, homemade caesar salad with the homemade caesar salad dressing, right there at your dinner table. All that, yeah, I want to experience that. She's a good salad man.
Speaker 2:I can't, I can't do it, be it, that's her thing. But I was thinking about I know you always like I know you go to the venetian. Every time you go roll beer y'all get them a nice sweet rooms. They got, but yeah, we didn't. Uh, I mean you want to relax, right, of course you want to I mean, the prices now is looking like.
Speaker 3:I mean, you really see, that's the thing. I think that's where Vegas is going to lose me, because you start looking at the per night Like, yeah, I can just go ahead and take a little three-day cruise or something for the price that you're going to give me for the room.
Speaker 1:You have all the food and everything included. Yeah, yeah, entertainment included, entertainment included.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you start, you start questioning like we wanted to do something, like, uh, we wanted to go to new orleans just to try. You know some of the cafes, you know cafe du monde, morose, things like that so you're like you know what would have been dope is to take the train down there, but I just haven't seen a train that has, uh, sleeping amenities that would suffice for me even if they do, it won't be for me.
Speaker 2:Even if they do, it won't be the standard. Even if they do, it won't be what you want.
Speaker 3:It was just more trying something different. You know what I mean. And on top of that, I'm just not sold on these aircraft because as many accidents I keep hearing about this.
Speaker 1:I was supposed to be in Tulum last week and me and the wife backed out because it was like hey, since, since it's been some changes in terms of our country, all of a sudden people forgot how to fly that plane's kissing each other on runway.
Speaker 2:Then the recent one flipped over as it landed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we ain't had this many accidents and all of a sudden we didn't have 87 incidents or something crazy just in 2025 and we ain't even two months out now.
Speaker 3:I'm good strange something right, yeah, that's exactly the reason why we're talking about taking the train like, hey, yeah, scenic route, you know, I heard that a nice steak on amtrak. We get there, we'll go, and, you know, eat for a day and do some shopping and then head back home. It was just to do something different, and on top of that, it didn't hurt that all these aircraft have an accident.
Speaker 2:Dude, you gotta know how much this has disrupted my personal life. I had finally gotten my family warmed up to the idea of actually getting on an airplane. Nobody but me was up for that challenge. We hadn't got the kids, the family got our passports, we ready to go do something outside of the normal and get out just to say yeah, yeah and now it's like I can't. I can't convince them to save my life, to get on an aircraft I don't care.
Speaker 3:No, no, no.
Speaker 2:I don't care if it's a hot air balloon man, they don't want no parts of it and I can't even say I blame them, because I'm at the point where, no, you know, it used to be easily the safest form of transportation, right, and now it's again. Within the last month or so, we've had more incidents than we've had for years combined, and it's like it was like almost decades like this many incidents yeah, crashes and land. It's just too much and I'm not willing to put my family's life at risk, we'll just hold off until we get to it.
Speaker 1:I don't know what's going on with that. I'm not sure it's very scary, because even at work.
Speaker 2:I don't want to blame the.
Speaker 1:DEI hire Quiet Yo.
Speaker 3:That's a whole show yeah, that's a whole show. That's a different kind of worms all together.
Speaker 1:It was the DEI. That's what's happening, right? So what happened to all? What happened all these years without these DEI incidents? All of a sudden, yeah, but yeah, I digress on that one, but yeah, the way, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1:We literally had a trip planned. It was paid for all inclusive. You know, we're going with some family and the more and more we talked about it, we just came to a conclusion like this this ain't the time when you got planes falling out, when you got planes disappear. Hey, this plane just called in to give us an update, they're ready to land and then you find it three days later, christ, like yeah, no, that's not a good selling point for me. I think that I've always I've always not been the greatest fan of flying, but I've come to terms in recent years with it where it's like okay, and I know for me exactly what it is like control, I'm in the sky, I got nothing to do with, there's a car, I feel like I can turn a wheel, I can figure out, you know I'll go back to an action movie and try and recall hey, how did they roll up something?
Speaker 1:when you up there, it's like this is you talk about jesus, like the wheel? That's pretty much all this is gonna be in the sky, because you really have no option but to sit and wait and see how it unfolds. Yeah, even no access, nothing. They had footage of a guy who was praying as the plane was getting ready to to touch down and crashing, and I was just like, yeah, that that to see that. And he was so calm. He just I think he was one of the people who his faith. He was just like, hey, we all going to go. If this is it, let me just get. Get mine up right now. Hey, hold, hold the door for me.
Speaker 3:I ain't trying to figure something out, or I'm getting in that cockpit and I'm going to try to figure some shit out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you see shows like Yellow Jackets and all these other things, and all of this predicated on something going wrong with a player. Not Yellow Jackets. My wife can't get enough of that show.
Speaker 2:He said Yellow Jackets.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That show was crazy.
Speaker 1:I'm good, only yellow is. I'm worried about right now is really more gold. And it's this purple and gold Because the Lakers did something they ain't done in quite some time last night and they put it to Denver A fully healthy Denver team nonetheless. Right, it took them out 123 to 100. I sat there watching that and I was like From pillar to post, yeah, the defense is going to fail eventually. But From pillar to post, yeah, the defense is going to fail eventually. But no, they never went up to A. It was belt to asses last night.
Speaker 3:What did you guys think of the game? You know, I think, that what we're seeing, what we saw, is finally Luka get comfortable, and I think part of it, too, is we talk about Luka. But I think we have to look at it from this dynamic LeBron James accepting that he's just going to have, he's going to be the second part to it and let Luka kind of get familiar with himself, comfortable with it. And once he gets, I think, if all things are true and LeBron James didn't know, I think I'm going to tell you something. I think he was a little bit salty, there's something about it they were playing good basketball before that trade coming off of 42 and 23.
Speaker 1:They had a little balance. I kind of questioned the same thing where it was like why didn't you guys just go target a big with what you had? But when you really get out of the emotion of the moment Luca at age 25 versus AD at age 31 I'm like right and then you have to speculate.
Speaker 3:They look at it and say are we gonna win? What are our odds of winning?
Speaker 1:you know yeah of winning at all you get a generational player for a bag of funyuns and a 1992 summer jam t-shirt. In essence, when it comes past the ad part of it, yeah, right, right, and that's what I mean.
Speaker 3:It was good to see. I mean, it's not since what? 2022? That we have defeated them. It's been a few years. It's been some years. That's damn ridiculous.
Speaker 2:You know what I?
Speaker 3:mean and it's not that we haven't played them well, because we've had games I mean when we played them in the playoffs.
Speaker 1:We were up and we just couldn't maintain defensively.
Speaker 2:That could and we just could have argued that could have been. Yeah, I really enjoyed watching that. Really, the reeves connection, they seem to have a certain synergy going on. Man, yes, I mean the way they played together last night and you got you. I mean you had pretty aside from lucas going, what 32? I mean he.
Speaker 3:I mean again, he was looking almost a triple double when he gets comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, but I mean, considering that you still got lebron going off and I won't say going off, but he had 25 where we had 21 austin raves with 23, you had some pretty easy scoring. Yeah, you had four, four players in double digits and you got, you know, contributions from players like jordan goodwin, which I I was like who is this dude?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if I've been, if I've got something this year who he played for in D Right Like who? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It was one of those type of deals Dalton connected and do as much as yeah, but you know you can't get everybody involved.
Speaker 2:It's one of them deals where you get four or five players over double digits. You know you've done a good job, but it was pretty even kill scoring defense, like you said, held up. I was surprised by that, but they just seem to play together well, and that was. I hadn't seen that in quite some time. But when you got players like lebron and luca, who know how to play team basketball, who know how to move the ball, they're gonna figure it out. They'll figure it out right. I mean you even up until not not including last night, but I was starting to see like, oh, gabe vincent is kind of returning to form, you starting to get contributions, get contributions from the guy, yeah, starting to pay off and pay dividends.
Speaker 2:And I didn't think, yeah, I thought it was going to be a complete bust for his stint here in LA, but I mean, in recent games it's been looking pretty good. It's on the up and up.
Speaker 3:But you know, who knows how that will shake out in the long term. I think the ball movement is great. I think the ball movement is great, but that was the one thing I wasn't worried about Robert.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you.
Speaker 3:I wasn't worried about ball movement, I wasn't. But on the same side, this is at this juncture in LeBron James' career. I was just waiting to see Because, see, it was not about Luka to me when we just break down in totality the whole thing, the trade, everything. We had this conversation off air before Henry. I said I think LeBron James is the problem.
Speaker 3:He's holding the team back and, with all respect, all due respect to LeBron James and his illustrious career, he's 40 years old and we're for him to be at, you know, at the forefront of the team, still trying to push it forward. We know he can't play. You know, at the forefront of the team, still trying to push it forward. We know he can't play. You know, defense he's, he's just not that guy. In order for him to be the LeBron offensively, he can't be. He can't, you know, give up all that energy defensively. So when I saw it and I said, you know, we've never seen this before. And for a guy to be still averaging 25, you know, 20 plus points a game, even at his age, other teams, but if he, if you know, think about the average 40 year old, wouldn't be playing, let alone scoring that much points. So it'd be easy to move on from them. It was so hard right.
Speaker 3:So they. So they had to make a decision and that decision came hard. And LeBron James, I mean I applaud him at this point for, you know, seemingly it seemingly looked like he got past it because he played well off the ball when Luca was in Trentland and transitioned and fast breaks. I think the tempo is a little bit better with Luca, you know, controlling the ball. There's something about that flow and LeBron James playing freely off the ball. I like that and they're able to switch up when they need to. But I think if I were to say I'd I prefer lebron james being off the ball now. Oh, you said it, I was about. I think he's a bigger threat.
Speaker 1:Yeah I think I actually think he's a bigger threat off the ball, because, yes, when he's pounding that ball, whether it's in the post or if he's, if he's holding up top, everything's stopping. Everyone waits. The one thing we saw in that game last night Luka is sitting here, you know, 90 feet, throwing the ball, like here. You run out, just go, if you run, I'm going to get it to you, and I think that's one of the things that changed. The other thing you saw was a lot of that energy with the ball movement led to wide open threes that they're knocking down, which the Lakers haven't done it. I don't know how many years you look at how just the ball kept moving and it was always the extra pass. And so, to that point, I think, shout out to the coaching staff to really just implement a style and they're starting to look like they actually have, actually have an identity. That was one of my biggest critiques with Darwin last year was just like, well, we injured, all right, well, you just don't get to stop playing because you're injured, like somebody. Somebody has got a jersey on, so what does that mean for the team? But they actually look like. You look at how they double team, how they fronted Jokic and were able to move and still get out and recover. They got some young legs out there. Now I think Austin Reeves has come along and has accepted his role and realizes like hey, I can be a really pivotal part in what we're doing now. And then his connection with Dory and Finney Smith. You also see that and you can tell there's some familiarity there, there's some comfort. So overall that was just a really good balance game.
Speaker 1:I thought they did enough on defense with what they had A lot of high scoring, wide open shots were great.
Speaker 1:But you saw that joy in Lukan. I think that's what they need to rely on because a lot of people as much as people are celebrating this trade don't realize at the end of this season Lukan can walk, he is available to walk. So to have him smiling, to have him playing around with JR and the team really embracing him and kind of crossing that role, I think that speaks more volume than anything because you want to show him hey, we can build on this, because if he walks away from us he's not losing any money, he can go somewhere else, he can go play and make some more money, actually in one of these no-tax states if he wanted to. So I think that's the bigger implication. And then it's one of the things he said you know it's tough to play here, this team and this building, basically, but I'm starting to feel like myself again and I think that if they can embrace that, keep him in that loop, then, yeah, some, some special could happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They got to find a way to appease him.
Speaker 2:No doubt, cause you don't foresee that happening. I think he sees the opportunity off the court. He's got to see that this is not Dallas. As great as you performed in Dallas, as much as they embraced you and as much was coming your way as a superstar, you get a whole lot more of that here in LA. But I guess, by that very same notion he can go to New York and get even more technically, or maybe Golden State.
Speaker 2:I hope that he decides that. That very same notion he can go to New York and get even more technically, but I but you know. Or maybe go and stay, but I but let me know, I hope that he decides that he wants to stay in a purple and gold for the, at least for the short term, at least for the next four or five years. I don't know what that'll look like, but I mean. But again, the takeaways from that game, where there were many. I'm not saying that they were completely shutting them down, but when Aaron Gordon is leading all scorers for the Nuggets at 24 and nobody else is over 20, you'll have some success If you can keep Jokic at 12 points.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. He still did his thing on the boards and he had a triple-double, but we're talking about a low-scoring. That's a very low-scoring triple-double for Jokic, who's pretty much averaging a triple-double for Jokic, who's pretty much averaging a triple-double this year. And that's a big, which is pretty damn impressive.
Speaker 3:But you hold him at 12,.
Speaker 2:you know oh definitely yeah, they were giving the rock up. Yeah, yeah, that certainly. Luca had four steals by himself.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I mean really, oddly enough, like we outscored him in the paint that was.
Speaker 1:That was a crazy right that was joke, it's only yeah right lopsided but you saw lebron using his size on yokich and fronting him with weak side held from hayes. Everybody kind of sunk in and it reminded me of defense that we used to coach when we were coaching in high school, where it's like, like, look, everybody's in help side, if we can to your point, reed, yes, he can still get a triple-double, but if it's 12 versus 36 points, we got a chance of winning. Good, hey, you got your triple-double, good for you. But he worked for everything. He got that game and I think if they can keep that up and you can keep, um, you know, just pushing.
Speaker 1:The other thing is hitting open shots. Hitting open shots allows you to get back set up your defense. You know you clanging shots everywhere and then trying to get out with teams that run, that's going to be a problem. So I think it was a good example of what it could look like if you can make that, how you consistently play. But you can't have, you know, mishaps like you had in Charlotte against Charlotte and things like that, where you're dominating these teams but to beat Denver at home by 23, that was to me the most impressive win of the year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because we were knocking down some shots. I mean, we shot what I believe it was 50 from the field, and it's not that we put up more shots. I mean it was pretty much even for the shots, we just were knocking them down. Versus the last game we played, charlotte I think that what the lakers are going to have to be able to do moving forward is we know we're not going to be a top defensive, defensive team. We just have to be able to play defense in certain spurts, in certain times when we and collectively, like you said, because we are undersized and we won't have to.
Speaker 3:You know, in the Western conference, we're gonna have to deal with the big men. Well, except for Wimby right now, but we still we're gonna have to. Well, your kids, we're going to see them again. There's, there's going to be no doubt about that, and that's when and I know we got a little eight game stretch coming up with, you know, almost I think a few back to backs. You know, lebron James was kind of crying about that, which you know I understand what them 40 year old ladies change yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, right. But I think that could be very telling for us because at the end of the day, besides LeBron, we still got some youth on us, so I don't expect us to be able to fall off like that. It could be a real character building. We've got to take this victory because, I mean, we snapped, they didn't have an eight-game winning streak.
Speaker 3:So we snapped that. Now, if we can take that momentum into this eight-game slide and see how it is, see how Luka, because it seems like he's getting lax. So that's going to be the thing Is Luka going to show us now? Is this the Luka we're going to see moving forward? That's what's going to be determined. I mean, I know he's. It took him a while to kind of get his legs. I know he lost some weight, you know, even you know more.
Speaker 3:And part of that, like I said, I just don't think it was Luke. I think it was he trying to. I don't know if LeBron had a conversation with him or someone had a conversation and said hey, this is your team, stop trying to. You know, you worried about LeBron. I think he was when he was playing, when he first, you know, got to the team, he was so worried about LeBron and making sure that LeBron, you know, touched the ball a certain amount of times and everything, and instead he just needs to go and let LeBron feed off that and that's what really happened. And it seems, like you said, lebron was just like. It was like for once, even just like for once. I don't have to have the ball in my hand and I can kind of do damage off the ball and create mismatches, because he knows he's going to be a big mismatch and now I can get my points in a different flow of the game. So you know, kudos to the coach too.
Speaker 3:I will say you know we got to give Riddick. You know, I don't know if you guys heard during last week, I mean the way you know he already came out there and said I know you're going to say, and I'm paraphrasing he said you know he already came out this and I know I know you're gonna say, and he, I'm paraphrasing he said you know, I, I know you guys are gonna think I'm glazing lebron when he kind of spoke highly of him, like he's 40 years old and that he was holding the team and everything. It just goes to show with those comments, like he is, he's a different coach. You know he's he because no other coach he's still aware of it. You know what I mean. I think I'm getting past it now. I was still hurt, don't get me wrong. I was still hurt by the trade, but I'm understanding because you know the sensitive nature of it, of just trading when I thought that we possibly had a chance. It's good to see now Like I'm at peace with it.
Speaker 1:We hit a stride and that made it very difficult If we weren't playing well, it would have been easy to say yeah, let's watch this. Move on from this.
Speaker 3:Right, but even then, I still understand it Once you kind of get out your feelings about it. You understand Now because think of it from this standpoint. Could you imagine that we never made the trade? They never really spoke on it and we find out about this later. We don't win a championship, we don't? You know? Lebron goes out in the sunset and be like guess what. We could have traded for Luka in 2025, and we chose not to. That would be the bigger story.
Speaker 2:And also, yeah, you would have AD injured for the season if he's still in LA. That happens regardless. You know what I mean, right, but you know what I noticed and maybe I'm wrong. You guys tell me what you think about this. Take as as dominant as yokish can be and as great of a player he is, he has got to be one of the easiest superstars to stymie his game into remedy. Like he seems to struggle with people who front him in the post, like real physicality, for as big as he is he, he seems to struggle with that a bit. Like that's when I I see him kind of wither a little bit. I'm not saying that, that that maybe I'm wrong about that tape, but I just think if you put a, a body on him, a presence, you know what I mean somebody with some yeah, it's good enough size not even height, just good size, it seems to that challenge seems to knock him off track a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, though, size-wise, in terms of height, they were similar, but it was that body. But if you think about what we did with JaVale and Dwight two big physical presences that would just annoy and disrupt Jokic, in terms of basketball, iq is off the charts. I mean, he passes like a big, he hits wide open shots. He is by far the complete package, but to that point, which is why I think Bear and I harp so much about not going back and either running it back or getting some of these big physical presences. We've seen this is where it's going to work, because we've watched it happen before. I mean, don't get me wrong, he could have coupled with just having a bad game, because that's going to happen too, and that's why.
Speaker 1:I'm excited about what we saw, but I think we need to see it more consistently. The Charlotte game, for example, that went down when Austin Reeves went off the floor. They came back Everything they did. Once he got ejected. It was like, hey, we're missing a component.
Speaker 1:And I think that's where the challenge the Lakers are going to have is, you don't have enough talent to where you can miss any of your guys. You do have to play near-perfect basketball to get the results you're going to want and, like you said, Donald Konek wasn't a factor in this game. He may be the one that steps up. Dorian Finney may have a worse game next time, but you kind of have to have between Luka, Austin, Braun, Rui because you don't kind of eat that almost nightly in order to against better teams. You might be able to get away with the Washingtons and some of these other teams of the world, but those four guys you're pretty much going to need to get dialed in and then see whoever that next guy is, or two. If you can get two guys to step up, then, yeah, you're in a much better spot, but it does help when you get the ball moving away.
Speaker 2:it did like you the thing about it is like. If you're not a great shooting team, the best thing for you to do is move the ball and get open shots. That increases your chances.
Speaker 3:Until this, until the yesterday, I mean, I didn't consider us as a great shooting team. So when I saw that, I mean, like I said, 50, we, I, when you look at the charlotte game, and after reeves went out, part of the issue was because they attacked the middle. Luca, luca basically turned them to the middle. There was no one there to stop him and he got. Once he got that deep, it was over with and they were able to get. And you know, turn up, they were able to get in. You know, turn up, they were able to get easy buckets of the paint and that's how they got us.
Speaker 3:I mean, I, I'd listen, I know Luca isn't that great defensively, but when he just got ate up at the end, I'm just like Jesus, you let this man I mean, I think you know to anybody that's, he's not he's, he's not the quickest guy on his feet. So it would make sense that he got beat. But usually you would have an AD to step up in that instance. And now that we don't have that and like you were saying, chris, that's what I still didn't understand Like, if you can get athletic bigs, I can, you know, get up and on the floor and be passed. At the very least that would help out. They may not be scores or anything like that, but rebounding defensively and just being a physical body, I would take that right now. I would most definitely take that because, jokic, that is the way and I think we're going to see him again.
Speaker 1:I understood why they wanted a Valanchunas, because it's literally a huge body with some skill set but more so physical girth to be like, hey, you're going to have to get around this wall if nothing else. So yeah, and he does, Like I say.
Speaker 2:Jokic tends to struggle with people who have again size. Yeah, not in height, but like just that girth and that physicality.
Speaker 3:He tends to struggle with that.
Speaker 2:Right, and if you can take him off his game in that sense and you can keep everybody else, like the michael porter juniors, out of the game uh, jamal murray's gonna do his thing more often than not, but if you can, if he's having a bad night on top of that you know the guys like christian braun, everybody else if they're not hurting you, you stand a pretty good damn chance of winning the game hell, even a series, if you can string four games together like that yeah, yep, and that's collective defense yeah Right, as a Laker fan, it's hard for me to even swallow, because I remember playing them in the playoffs.
Speaker 3:We were handling it, just we couldn't keep it up defensively throughout the second half.
Speaker 1:Which is what I was worried about this game. I thought it would look like the playoff game, where we led three and a half quarters and they just turn it on and kind of win at the end. And Murray goes off yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right, but I'll take it nonetheless though.
Speaker 1:As I said, I'll take it and I think we just have to see now that we have kind of a benchmark of what it looks like when it all comes together the next couple of weeks, as they go through this really tough stretch, we'll be able to see kind of what that looks like and see if they can kind of build on this. I think that's the most important part. But I was sitting there and we talked a little bit about AD and his injury and him being injured and it made me think of a question that I have for the two of you, because we've watched basketball for quite some time now. But my question is if you could take away the injuries for one player that I'm about to name, who would it be? So, if you think about this player's career, if you could eliminate all of that player's injuries and they just played through their career injury free, who do you take as a gm? Let's let's make it a gm, right.
Speaker 1:Would you take grant hill? I was about to say that. Would you take derrick rose? Would you take yaoming? Would you take brandon roy? I knew you were gonna say, say it Tracy McGrady.
Speaker 3:Ooh, ooh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you had. Yeah, that's, and I wanted to have that, that conversation I thought that could have been a show in and of itself the all time. What if team? Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:You can go further back.
Speaker 2:You can go all the way back and name the first one, vignana, which was Ralph Sampson. I mean, that was a dude who would have been him and.
Speaker 2:Hakeem in Houston. They had went to the finals. What in the second season in the league, or something like that. They were already making strides and they were proving themselves to be a force to be reckoned with in the NBA. But I'm trying to think For me, I'm going to say Grant Hill all day because you know right, at least listen, I'm not just saying this because he's a duke guy. It doesn't hurt. But um, and this might, sound a little outrageous.
Speaker 1:You know deep duke and I'm deep tar hill. Oh yeah, man, and little do y'all know I know we talk a lot of lakers.
Speaker 2:We live in california, we're all la natives, it is what it is. I'm a boston celtic fan, uh, and a detroit piston fan as well. And why, you might ask. They were the two teams who were going, the only two teams competing with lakers back when they were at their height, and I was a laker hater as a kid. And those two teams, they hey man, they had their fair share of wins against the lakers against the grain beat them in the finals.
Speaker 2:That's really what it was but I grew to actually love those teams, my teams, but um me being a duke lover, um grant hill and I've said this before and I'm not the only person who feels this way I thought he was lebron james before lebron james, and that he had such an all-around game.
Speaker 2:He was a guy who he could pass the ball. He was a more than decent ball handler. He could rebound Not at a high clip we ain't talking Rodman numbers Before a small forward I mean we talking six, seven rebounds a night. Pretty damn good, capable of getting your triple-double on select nights. He could pretty much do it all. Was he the greatest shooter from deep? No, he stood to improve in that greatly, but I saw him kind of doing that. But I'm talking about just his ability when I say he would routinely abuse Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen on the wing with that stutter step and that in and out and go to the basket I'm talking about an
Speaker 1:attack to the basket.
Speaker 2:And he was just beautiful.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:Grant Hill was really coming on as one of the premier players in the league and I think he was one of those guys who would have would have competed at the very least in the kobe era. He would have been one of those dudes had he been. I mean, obviously you got t-mac too, that's. It's a tough one when you say that, because t-mac was so naturally gifted but t-mac is kind.
Speaker 2:Again, he's a bit of an outlier in even this scenario because he, of all of those what-if guys, he played the most games. He just missed stretches when it was the most important in his career.
Speaker 2:He never got out of the first round or never led a team out of the first round but in terms of what we saw him do, because he has the most complete body of work, if you will out of this group, if you want to call it that like he had the most complete career by far. Uh, but you might argue he just didn't maximize. But grant hill was really. He was taking detroit in that piston team to a to a are we talking about?
Speaker 3:in terms of like, what do you mean? Greatness with, with, with t-mac, as compared in comparison to the other players. You know what?
Speaker 2:because in this way. Before we go back to that, there's one reason why I'll give Grant Hill the nod. I think Grant Hill was probably more driven to be great than maybe T-Mac was, leaning on his natural abilities. Like T-Mac, I'm not saying he didn't work hard, I don't doubt. Listen, you don't become T-Mac by not working hard and not making sacrifices. I just think that Grant Hill may have been more dedicated to like you talked about, robert and the conversation we had last night to being a legacy, all-time great. I think he saw himself in that lineage of Michael Jordan as an heir to the Michael Jordan throne. I think he saw himself as one of those guys.
Speaker 3:And I think he took it more serious. Coming out of college. Did you see Grant Hill Like coming out of college? Did you see or believe Grant Hill was going to be the player that when he stepped into the scene? That guy?
Speaker 2:When Laettner stepped out of the way, I definitely—but you saw it even before that Like I knew he was as good if—I mean you know you ask me again a Duke fan at the very height of, at that Duke era of my favorite era obviously was that Leitner era. You know Christian Leitner is the greatest college basketball player I've seen in my lifetime. That's just me. You know what I mean. Again, there's a bias there and I'm clear about that. But I mean in terms of just the things he did. You know they were like the last team before the Florida Gators to win back-to-back championships.
Speaker 2:I mean he played in the area Shaq, chris Webber, jim Jackson. I mean he played with some real monsters in college basketball and found a way to knock off that UNLV team with Larry Johnson, stacey Augman and Anderson. I mean along with Christian Hurley and Grant Hill. No doubt he wasn't doing it by himself. Grant Hill was a big part of that. I knew Grant had the potential, but it wasn't until Christian Laettner was drafted and got out of the way and went to the league that I saw Grant Hill's got some real potential, like long-term in the NBA where Christian Laettner I think there was always that question, like you know how was he going to fare in the pros. I would have wanted him to have a better career. He didn't have a bad career by any stretch, but he didn't have To him.
Speaker 1:It's like a Carolina. Tyler Hansborough for example, where it's like you are at the apex of what it's going to be.
Speaker 2:Pretty much. But I mean, yeah, I thought Christian Laitner had far more skill than you know, uh, than a tyler handsboro who was just an energy guy, not just an energy guy, but yeah, but I knew grant had it in him, but it wasn't until he got to league I saw like, wow, I didn't know he had this much and I thought he was really turning that page and becoming a real, bona fide superstar of the likes of a michael jordan you could make from.
Speaker 3:I saw when he played yeah, yeah, because when? Yeah, but when I saw grant hill just played, played the, but when I saw Grant Hill just play the Bulls and I saw him when he just gave it to Jordan and Pippen raised on him, like you know what it is I think that Grant Hill and that's not my pick, by the way, but I will say, watching him play, he was quiet, but he was an assassin, like you could tell. He played with an energy that he wanted it. For me, I mean, this is a hard question, chris, because it is that's why I was like hey you guys had no clue what the question was going to be for that reason.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the infamous T Mac and Colby game where they just went at it shot for shot but he also, which is one of the greatest games. Yeah, that was a shootout, but then again, brandon roy did the same thing. Brandon roy was something to behold. That. That I mean man, had he not had the knee issues, that dude, right there, you forgot somebody, y'all I mean you got to put penny on this list somebody y'all.
Speaker 1:I mean you got to put penny on this list. He didn't really fully realize. I, I, I took him off on purpose because I knew we would eventually have an episode where we'd go through all of these guys, so I left.
Speaker 3:I left a couple gyms off, actually, so yeah, I, I think, personally I, I hmm man, see, t-mac, we're talking about gifted size and what he's able to do light-footed, smooth, can attack the basketball. I mean, when he's on fire, I mean he is comparable to Kobe in that sense. When he goes off, he's going to go off, I would argue, natural ability.
Speaker 2:He might be better as a raw talent than Kobe.
Speaker 3:I think Kobe just worked harder at his craft than Tracy did.
Speaker 2:Kobe would probably tell you that because he talked about how hard it was to guard.
Speaker 3:He was a mismatch, he was a nightmare. If you had now, I think I would go with for my dollar, I would go with T-Mac. I mean you can't go wrong with any of them, but just his natural ability, his skill set, his size, I mean just to watch him, the athleticism, and you know, of course, we were robbed of it. We never got really a chance to see him and Yao play together, which I thought if they could have both remained healthy eventually they probably would have won one. Yeah, I mean because Yao Ming started coming around. Yeah, they were. I mean that was because Yao Ming started coming around as soon as his injury. As soon as that, soon as he became like a force to be reckoned with and he got familiar with the game and comfortable with the, with the NBA setting. It took off. But the injury and they had pieces around them.
Speaker 1:They actually had shooters, defenders, they had everything that would have led to an eventual championship. Think, yeah, I, I think that's that's interesting.
Speaker 3:but my question is championships they would have won, but yeah, but? But in this scenario, my only question is that because you pick t-mac and that's a.
Speaker 2:Are we talking orlando t-mac? We're talking houston t-mac. Are we talking because? You say, only one can be injury free so even though T-Mac doesn't suffer injuries right and he's at his optimal peak form, but Yao Ming now isn't. Because you can't have both right, chris, in this scenario. So if T-Mac is the guy, you've restored to 100% health.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's not fair.
Speaker 2:No, what I'm saying is he's only one, and Yao was one of those choices.
Speaker 3:So you can't have T-Mac and Yao.
Speaker 3:So do they do it with just T-Mac at his height, at the peak. But Yao was injured. Not in that era of basketball, no, he would have to have a Yao Ming to really compete and be a force in the league. At that time Lakers were still going. That wasn't going to happen. Big men were still very much alive and needed in that capacity of that era, on top in that, in that capacity that you know of that era. Not not because and on top of that, I mean we're talking about a dude, not just because we've seen guys that his size, like you see the Wimby's and everything. They're very like thin and and and their stance and stature, yeah, yao Ming was hefty. Yeah, ming was hefty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean they check, look like a kid, and that's what I was like. Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know, he started to develop a little baby hook, he, he started getting better. Yeah, I mean, he became, yeah, he became a force. Yeah, ming was going to be a problem for anyway. And so if, since, so, since I can't have him, I think I would still go with him. That Orlando, that Orlando, he was a beast in Orlando. That's when I knew yeah. So that's why, when we knew Houston was going to get him, we were expecting that. You know, we were expecting Orlando. So when he got there, and then you get Yao Ming, and Yao Ming turns out not to just be all hype, like a lot of, you know, for the people that's not our age, you have to understand. A lot of the foreign players were a lot of hype at that time. We're talking about the Darkos and everything like that. These guys were coming in the league with big names but they didn't deliver.
Speaker 3:But Yao Ming, after he got settled in, yeah he's, he took off.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:And he was. I mean, you know what? It's crazy because you. Can you just imagine if the league would have been so lucky to have a international player like Yao Ming actually ball and have like a long, healthy, illustrious career? Do you imagine? Can you imagine that and and winning a championship and becoming like the new dominant big man, the face of the dominant big man?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That would have been a sight to see. I mean, you can't go wrong with any of these guys, Because to see Brandon Roy, I think you think about Dane time. Brandon Roy was an alien.
Speaker 1:He looked so unassuming. He wasn't. He wasn't. He didn't have the physique, he didn't have the stature, he didn't, and the way that man used to go off was just like where's this coming?
Speaker 3:from. He can shoot that ball boy. He get that stroke going. He get that stroke going. I mean, and it's, I'll say, with Brandon Roy. It wasn't super flashy, he just he was a high IQ guy too. He knew how to put the ball on the floor, he knew how to get to his spots, he had the mid-range. He can shoot from three, he had it all. And just I mean, that's another thing you imagine if he would have been there in the end you would have had a Greg Oden that actually was healthy and see how that could have possibly turned out. Man, I mean because remember, you know, going back to it, Just him and LaMarcus.
Speaker 2:Aldridge were a hell of a tandem man.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:The thing about Brandon Roy of the players on this list, because he's probably the least assuming and probably the least recognizable name. Yeah, the thing about brandon roy that stood out to me that I said this guy is special. He had that michael jordan gene. What I mean by that is in the playoffs he got bigger. Not too many guys get bigger when the lights are the brightest, like that was a very rare thing effectively, I mean his stats would.
Speaker 2:I mean he just got better in those moments and that that's a rare feat in and of itself of any sport to get better when it counts the most. Talking about the, playoff rondo.
Speaker 2:Yes, some of these guys, yeah, yeah, but I mean he was already a guy who was ascending to kind of star status, um, maybe, maybe even superstar status. I think eventually he would have definitely done that. I mean kobe bryant sung his praises, and for good. If kobe bryant is singing your praises much like a t-mac, a brandon roy like, I mean we know kobe had a great respect for his opponents in general, but those standout talents like yeah, you couldn't help, but see, like brandon roy was, he just had that killer like it. It's time to go to work. When it's when the playoff mode was in, right, he was, he was different beats, but I mean so the list was yaoming t-mac gran hill, granderoy and derrick rose right yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still going with grant, but derrick rose is definitely one of those dudes where I'm like youngest mvp in league. I mean, I remember the thing about derrick rose that got me was my father-in-law god rest his soul. Uh, was, uh. He was a big basketball fan too and he just could not get over how derrick rose is a rookie looked. He was like man, this dude. You think he's been playing for 10 and 12 years. Right, you know, but he's a rookie. He's just so poised, he just has it.
Speaker 1:He just knows what he's doing the lane, yeah, and not even touch the. You're talking about just pushing the ball through his explosiveness, his handle, that leading to his explosiveness. It was different, I will say when I looked at this and so just Reed, just to give you a little insight, a couple people I left off. I left off Penny.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I left off another international player like Arvita Sabonis, and we could have argued if he got there earlier and no injuries that might have been something too.
Speaker 1:So, danny Granger, I kind of considered on that list because that's kind of how we found out about Paul George, even though he was never going to be that guy but where he was when he got injured, kind of left the door open. But yeah, I'm with you, ree, on this and I'm telling you what stood out to me and I'll never forget it that chess piece Pistons jersey that I used to look at.
Speaker 3:it was like, yeah, this is the ugly one, Grant Hill and that ring yeah yeah, yeah, the horse.
Speaker 1:It was like. Yeah, I will never forget playing the Bulls. Grant Hill had a change of pace, change of direction for a dunk. Was Scottie pipping on him? Yep, that's exactly right. I was like hold on. Scottie was world-class to me Of all the players. For me, because Scottie's the reason I wore 33 or wanted 33, because he was the epitome of it all to me. Scotty is what made me fall in love with the three position.
Speaker 2:Yeah same, because it was the perfect balance of fame.
Speaker 1:Here it was. It was okay, cool. The three to me is like the quintessential basketball position, because you get the best of both worlds right. As a one, you're supposed to bring up, you're supposed to facilitate. As a five, you're supposed to bang and pound and do all that. Scottie got to do it all but he was a world-class defender and that was something when I played that I wanted to be like just a good, solid defender, stay in front of people, harass, make things hard. But he brought the ball up, he shot at a decent rate. So Scottie was like the hey, this is what basketball should be, because you got the best of both worlds. But I will never forget Scottie sitting in that defensive stance.
Speaker 1:Grant went one way straight through the legs, exploded through, nobody could get and he dunked on him and just kind of walked away with like a. That's just the first one and I was like I vividly remember you talk about certain basketball plays. I remember that play. I remember when Ori hit that, that game winner, that Lottie tipped out Like there are just certain plays in basketball where I was like hey, that was a moment. And I remember, granted, I was just like if this guy kept at this pace to that point, re who did? I can't even remember who he had with him at that time, but I don't know if he would have taken them all the way by himself.
Speaker 2:No, he would have needed some help. He didn't have much on that team, the same way we talk about y'all and team back in there.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, he would have been great, but he I don't see him climbing that mountain. But I looked at that. I was like this is, this is different, and it was. He was another three. So that was for me like, yeah, he's got a little bit of all of it, yeah, yeah my only problem with grant.
Speaker 2:At times he could be a little bit too unselfish and I thought considering, like considering the level of talent he had around him, he, grant hill, should have averaged 30 points easily, like he didn't have enough to, I mean. But that was grant's nature, his ability to share the ball. Yeah, you can rebound.
Speaker 1:He can do it all right.
Speaker 2:Grant was a system guy from college yeah, yeah, but I'm happy you mentioned that he had proven in the nba he could be a great, not just a system guy, but he could be a one-on-one. He could be a great one-on-one player and I didn't know he had that in him. That's what shocked me. Like grant, he can go out and get his own, never mind outside of the system.
Speaker 3:He's got a little wiggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when you say that play, I was thinking, I'm thinking like, which one are we talking about? Because he did it quite a number of times on Pippen and Jordan.
Speaker 1:Because when he caught Jordan for those who don't understand this.
Speaker 2:You cannot believe that there was a time well most of honest with you where mike would would tire himself out against the best offensive player on the other team and sick scotty. Scotty was your. He was your last line of defense. Scotty couldn't get it done. You're in deep shit. It is what it is, because luke long for as great as michael, because for as great as michael jordan was on both ends of the floor.
Speaker 2:Scotty was, by a country mile, the best defender in nba, especially on a perimeter like bar none. You I'm not even having this conversation with nobody scotty pippen epitomized what it was to be a swiss army knife, a defensive specialist. Um, scotty did it all. I mean, scotty really was one of those dudes where I remember the williams always like having this thing with scotty pippen and I didn't get it. I was like remember, mike is the guy and they were like nah. But I never forget when, when john starks racked on michael jordan when he went with that left-handed dunk, their whole thing was but he didn't get scotty, that was a mike and I was like what?
Speaker 3:oh, that was my.
Speaker 2:He didn't get scotty, though scotty wasn't the picture, and I was like right, yeah and I was like, yeah, that I didn't realize until later, like after Charles Barkley and maybe Isaiah Thomas Scotty is my favorite player of all time. I mean, he just he doesn't get enough love for for what he did to help that bulls team become the dynasty that they became and it's dominant they were. But yeah, I watched Grant shake up Mike and Scotty on a number of plays like that with that change of pace and then get straight to the rack and he just, even when it's this head-to-head his stats against michael jordan like he really did compete, he really did answer the call against michael jordan. Most players shied away from that and they got a little small in the moment. Grant wasn't about that. He was like, nah, dude, I'm here too, I'm a premier player in this league, I'm yeah, I want to show you that I'm like I'm listen, I'm really on your trajectory. If we being honest, like he was dedicated, he, he had it all. It's just that we didn't get a chance to see it. I mean, he, he had a good career, 19 seasons in the league. He played great in phoenix.
Speaker 2:Uh, maybe that injury helped him sustain his career later on on the back end because he didn't have as much wear and tear on him. Figure it out, yeah. But those ankle injuries, man, and that was the one thing thing. I hated that Detroit. We didn't force him to do it, but he wanted to play with his team in the playoffs when he knew he was hurt. He probably should have sat that out. I know we needed him to have a fighting shot at anything, but it was just like he should have taken that time. He's like a championship boxer If you leave it to himself, you'll die in the ring. You'll have to save him from himself and nobody was there to do that for him. And damn, are we talking about what if? And that shit is, oh my God.
Speaker 2:When I think about Grant Penny, t-mac, again T-Mac I kind of leave him off in a sense, because we saw enough of him to say like, yeah, I don't think it's a matter. Clearly he has the talent to be one of the all-time greats. Again, natural ability through the roof, I mean, without having to. I'm sure granny, I'm sure penny, my penny, I'm sure t-mac could take summers off of playing ball at all and jump back on the court when the season starts and be right. You know what I mean? Like I don't. I believe that with all my heart, like he was just that naturally gifted. But uh, but grant man, I I thought he was. He was kind of a cut above in that regard and I really saw him as somebody to compete with kobe in that era, before that era, I thought they would have dueled it out for who was who was the heir apparent to michael jordan? That's just, but then again could be my biases in a way this he's.
Speaker 3:I mean we're talking about a guy. I'm pretty sure I mean I'm off the top of my head that made feel irrelevant in basketball as a shoot.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, you forget about that. That was.
Speaker 3:That's the hell of a point though, because his play on the court was so big like people actually went and bought the grand hill feelers right, they were flying the fact that first two, yeah, oh yeah, that right with that blue ring yes too oh yeah, that, yep, but it was just crazy because you know.
Speaker 3:But up until that point it's just, it was just nike or nothing. And here all this, out of nowhere, like a feeler shoe with a little bit of patent leather around it, became like the shoe to get like. I need the grant, the Grant Hills.
Speaker 1:I need the Grants.
Speaker 3:I still want them and it oh, yeah, yeah yeah. That was a hell of a list, that poof.
Speaker 2:And even guys like Arbita Sabonis. Yeah, his thing wasn't even about injuries, he just came so late in his career.
Speaker 3:Right and he came. I mean, you might have Circumstantial.
Speaker 2:Listen, a lot of vets will tell you man Arbenis Sabonis at his peak in Europe. Had he come over here into the NBA he would have probably given Shaq a run for his money, and then some. I mean, we might be talking about Arbenis- as the most dominant Size footwork skill set.
Speaker 2:Everything, man, and being able to step out yeah, at time was heard of yeah, he was fearless too, like he wasn't he wasn't shook up by no nba, like no shacks and no I can't you know whatever with that he I mean. The thing about our beat is he was. These people are like from war ridden, yeah but.
Speaker 1:But he had.
Speaker 2:But our beatus was listen, he had I won't say the swag, but he had a confidence about him that he would like he would say it publicly, like I'm better than these dudes, like he wasn't.
Speaker 3:Oh, you didn't hear that a lot from European players.
Speaker 2:They had more humility, Like they were just happy to be in the line.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say happy to be in the league.
Speaker 2:But he was just flat out like yeah, I'm good, no. I'm not good and the reason why he didn't come to the league he didn't think he had to prove that I'm the best in the world by going to the NBA Like I'm the best here, I'm the best playing in Lithuania, like I ain't got to go to the NBA to prove to you I'm the best big or the best player in the game. We'll see.
Speaker 1:We lined up across from each other that who I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when he finally came to the league as old as he was, he was still a force that dude was mad. He was something. It could have been a real problem. I don't know why they couldn't get over the hump with all the pieces that they had, man.
Speaker 1:That needs to be a show. The teams that didn't you talk about them. You talk about the Sacramento Kings. There's a couple of teams there, boy, and that might need to be an upcoming episode, fellas. But yeah, that was a good discussion. I knew that would get some things going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that threw me off. Yeah, that off. Yeah, that was, yeah, the only person that you could.
Speaker 2:If penny's in the mix, it might change my answer.
Speaker 3:It just might, because we knew it most definitely changed my answer because penny was honestly okay.
Speaker 2:So you had penny and grant hill, who predate kobe bryant by a couple of years right, and they were those guys on the cusp of really chasing down michael jordan's legacy, even for marketing.
Speaker 1:Grant hill drink spider little penny, all of that. Those were the two guys. Grant Hill Drink Spy Little Penny, all of that. Those were the two guys. They were all marketing machines.
Speaker 2:They had it all. And Penny wasn't a natural fit for a guy who could have been a face of the league, because he was shy, he kind of had some kind of social anxiety issues. He did not. People don't understand. It's like the reason for Little Penny was because penny wasn't comfortable in front of the camera. He needed, he needed it's kind of an alter ego. He needed something else as a standpoint between him and audience. But you know, that was uh, yeah, penny was. I mean, it wasn't natural to him but he still kind of illuminated that, that star quality. Whether he wanted to or not, he just had it. You know what I mean. And the grant hill was a little more and how they packaged, it was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that little penny campaign was Chris Rock voicing that was great on Nike's part even all the way down into a music video.
Speaker 3:I mean little penny and those commercials and the shoes are iconic to the 90s. Yeah, that was very. I mean that's when Nike, really they were out there with commercials and their campaigns?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was yeah, yeah, they really were.
Speaker 3:That was a time, yes, to see that penny and to see him coming off and see, I just didn't, I mean because you didn't really hear much about him. You know what, when they drafted him, it was like yeah, because you didn't really hear much about him. You know what, when they drafted him, it was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you didn't hear it, yeah, like wow, I mean, he stepped onto the scene and him and Shaq took off. Oh man, so they took off A lot of us. See, now, that was another big trade, another big thing. When Shaq leaving that squad after they went to the finals and you know, we know what happened, you know the, the multiple missed free throws to ice the game from Derek yeah, come on Nick. And Nick Anderson. Yeah, two opportunities to seal the game. He had four free.
Speaker 2:He missed four free throws, didn't he was four free throws totally he missed four.
Speaker 3:He missed two, got the rebound from missing the second one got fouled on the rebound and missed him again. I still remember that because I love that Orlando team. It was all bad.
Speaker 2:You're talking about a series of plays or four free throws that could have changed the course of history for that Magic team. That's one of the greatest what-ifs. What if they win that game?
Speaker 1:Does that change that series altogether? Is their confidence you go on and win something, yeah who's to say you don't?
Speaker 2:go and fight again though I do believe at some point yeah, because the shack was so box office he had to get up out of one way yeah, but he may, he may not have left as soon, especially if they had won.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he would have ran it back another year or so to be like, hey until. But yeah, his personality and who we know him to be now, he was destined for LA eventually. Yeah, lakers, more specifically, not just LA, but the Lakers specifically.
Speaker 2:Well, back then there was no other option. In LA it was the.
Speaker 3:Lakers and then, there was the JV team You're talking about cellar dwellers.
Speaker 2:The Clippers didn't even count.
Speaker 3:They weren't considered free agents?
Speaker 2:No that wasn't even there.
Speaker 1:Drill team versus drill team. Yeah, for real. Now you're like well, I wouldn't even say drill.
Speaker 3:Stay in the sports arena. Yeah, you stay up over there. You don't come over there. People forgot See a lot of us. You know real Lakers fans. We remember before we got a COVID. We remember the guys that we had. We still had Eldon Campbell. Oh man, come on the.
Speaker 1:Campbell man. The Lakers once had a man named Pig Pig Miller, pig Miller.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Pig Miller.
Speaker 1:Sadell Three.
Speaker 3:Sadell Wayne Cooper.
Speaker 2:One of my faves, eddie la point guards at one point.
Speaker 3:Those are the two guys that I wish we were able to keep was nick the quick, van axel and eddie. That was a, that was a whatever team that was a what if team.
Speaker 2:Eddie jones, nick van axel, kobe brian, kill o'neill man looking back on it like how did they not win a title? At least get to the finals, like damn with that team Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but who was coaching them at that point? Dale Harris.
Speaker 3:Was Dale Harris still there? Yeah, Dale Harris. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's one of the things. It took a personality bigger than them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it took somebody who had enough cachet to reel them in, Because that's what Phil brought in. I mean, he brought the system, yes, but he had enough cachet to tell all of those egos I'm bigger than all of y'all, Like in terms of resume, championships and everything. You got to be able to listen to a guy, and that's why Kobe had problems with that. He didn't have enough respect for him as a coach. It was like yeah and.
Speaker 3:I thought Sha coach where it was like yeah, I thought that that was a good one yeah, that was, but we can do it.
Speaker 1:We can do a couple more of those. What if teams? What if players? Yeah, no doubt. What if episode? Yeah, because you got it, you got an entire.
Speaker 2:I mean, you got an entire team of the what if guys, the what if all-stars would have been? Yeah, you're talking about another dream team in and of itself, with its own versions of michael jordan's, and so yeah, that would have been something, man. What could have been had they been spared from injury, man?
Speaker 3:Man, I mean so many different white Fs. Yeah, barkley, going to the Lakers, you know that's a whole other form of white F. Yeah, he was about to break my heart with that.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing about that news.
Speaker 1:I was like I ain't coming out late man, I have to play with no damn lakers. Yeah, oh man, I couldn't. I mean, I was a rumor to come to the lakers though, no, but that was literally.
Speaker 2:That was pretty much that was happening like, but I don't know what happened at the 12th hour, where it fell apart, but he was coming to lakers man. I was uh. I guess I would have been a Laker fan sooner, but I wasn't ready for that. I was ready for Chuck to go anywhere, but that it was a whole bunch of what-ifs in the league that we could definitely well. There is a book about it. I forget the name of it. I was reading it. It was an e-book I was listening to. I forget the name of it. It was really interesting, but I got to plug that next time. I wasn't really. I didn't even finish it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 2:So, but yeah, those are what ifs of the 90s.
Speaker 3:Good old 90s, good times, yeah. Yeah, that was real dope, that is that caught me off guard, because I didn't expect that one.
Speaker 1:I knew it would. That's why I didn't let you guys know ahead of time.
Speaker 3:I was just looking at a clip of T-Mac and who else? They were showing clips of Penny Hardaway and they were just showing them, like man, some of their iconic games when they just went off and they both had signature games like I'm here Now, what Right?
Speaker 2:You know, just unfortunate and the irony of this conversation, two of those players on the list played together but by the time they got together they were so, you know, with injury that we never got the most out of that.
Speaker 3:Grant Hill, tracy McGrady and could have been Grant Hill.
Speaker 2:Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan another great would-have.
Speaker 3:Wait a minute. Was I mistaken, or was Penny on the squad too for a minute? He was just riding the bench over there in Phoenix. Was he there late when Grant Hill was over there In Phoenix with?
Speaker 2:him. If he was, he was probably.
Speaker 3:Most definitely by.
Speaker 2:Phoenix. Yeah, it was pretty much. If he picked the, that ship had sailed long ago.
Speaker 3:Grant Hill actually had some solid years with Phoenix. He was a great contributor with that steve nash team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was, yeah great contributor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, again another. What if team another great, that's another, great every other one rajah bell.
Speaker 1:You had amari, stoudemire, steve, they had everything barbosa off the bench yeah, and that came down to some technical fouls, because I hey if, if Amari hadn't got them texts, I think Phoenix got past San Antonio that year. Yeah, that's probably the most costly between that and the, the Warriors tech, draymond's tech I think those are probably the two most.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're going to bring them in. Do we have? Do we really talk about the what-if teams? Do we talk about the Clippers?
Speaker 1:They could have been.
Speaker 3:The Clippers had a stretch there, where they had some talent, some young talent.
Speaker 1:Chris Paul yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were exciting and fun.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if I bought into them being a real, a real deal threat, like I thought they were funny chance to get the spurs they just well, I thought when they got kawaii, like there was a year there where I was like that, this team would actually be good enough, lob city was just that that was fun and exciting. It was fun, yeah, but that one year with Kawhi. I wouldn't actually be shocked if they cracked that ceiling. But yeah, yeah, something we'll have to cover on an upcoming episode for sure.
Speaker 3:For sure, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:For now, we're going to wind this one down and bring it to its conclusion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for the most part, man, that was a good, good, good discussion. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:We got to have more those what if and those fun those, those more fun what ifs, because you know I don't like to play with what ifs like in a real debate, but like it's not a fun, like they're fun to have because there are so many in the nba and professional sports generally general. You can have conversations forever.
Speaker 1:There's a ton of fun ones, and it brings back good memories, great memories.
Speaker 2:Just being in those time frames, man, but if shit we can do, an entire show based on just basketball, the game in the 90s in general, just what we went through with the 90s, standing in line at the footlocker to go get some shoes is a far gone conclusion than what it used to be. Before having a hookup or having an app or having you know what I mean this is, you had to wait in line like everybody else. There were no shortcuts to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, shorts coming down to your ankles. I mean, we got some topics, our experiences at the park. We'll have to bring it in for everybody.
Speaker 3:Well, that or some good old eBay I mean not eBay. What is that? East Bay? I'm sorry, that East Bay magazine that we relied heavily upon. Yeah, that was yeah that was everything.
Speaker 2:Getting that in the mail, man, ooh just fantasizing about all the shit you want to get circling right, circling everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was, that was a glorious time, time to be alive about all the shit you want to get Circle and everything.
Speaker 1:That was a glorious time. What a time to be alive. Well, thanks for joining us. Don't forget like, subscribe, comment. Ree, where can they find us?
Speaker 2:Of course, yeah, we can be found at our website, thesupremecourtbasketballbuzzsproutcom. That is again the Supreme Court basketball, all spelled out dot buzzsprout, dot com, and we're also available on YouTube at Supreme Court basketball. Please don't forget the at symbol, Otherwise you'll be led to another Supreme Court that has nothing to do with us or basketball. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio and all the other places you get your podcast at. Just type in the Supreme Court Basketball Podcast. You should be able to find us pretty easily and you can reach out to us via email TheSupremeCourtBasketball at gmailcom. Again, that's TheSupremeCourtBasketball at gmailcom. Where do you find us, man?
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Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, give us a love offer More than welcome. Get some of this good content.
Speaker 3:Some great content. I just do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Thanks for joining us for another week. We'll see you guys next week on the Supreme Court Basketball Podcast. We out Look forward. The Supreme.
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