The Supreme Court Basketball Podcast
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The Supreme Court Basketball Podcast
Ain't No Future in Yo' Frontin'
We break down the Lakers' crucial 134-127 win against the Memphis Grizzlies and analyze what it means for their playoff push. The trio of LeBron James, Luka Dončić, and Austin Reeves have proven to be effective, but defensive concerns persist as the team enters a brutal final stretch of regular season games.
• Examining the Lakers' position in the Western Conference standings and their challenging remaining schedule
• Debating whether the Lakers can overcome defensive deficiencies to make a deep playoff run
• Analyzing Austin Reeves' emergence as a legitimate third star alongside LeBron and Luka
• Duke and Florida punching their tickets to the Final Four in men's March Madness
• The rise of women's college basketball featuring stars like JuJu Watkins, Paige Bueckers, and Caitlin Clark
• Breaking down the LeBron James and Stephen A. Smith media confrontation
• Personal reflections on things we wish we had done differently in our twenties, particularly around travel and freedom
Thanks for listening!
all rise. The pot is now in session and with that we are on episode number nine, doing just fine back here with the fellas, chris and robert another week and it is, and another crack at this thing that we love to do. That's what they say, say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what they say. What's going on, bros?
Speaker 1:What's going on with y'all? I'm good, Robert. What's up with you man Back there, quiet. I ain't heard from you.
Speaker 3:Not a dang thing, Just chilling in the cut. You know Chilling. Another day with unexpected rain Chilling, in put the sweater on because I felt the chill coming like oh hey.
Speaker 1:When I got up it seemed like it was kind of sunny. A few minutes later it started looking overcast. Yeah, I actually walked outside, yeah.
Speaker 2:The cars were covered, it rained. It wasn't in the forecast, or, if so, I missed it. Sunny on the pod, cold outside, we all good. Everything is great. It is, yeah, especially for the Lakers, because they actually got back in that win column after a couple of bad losses. Couples of Chicago, you had Orlando in there, but then they go up against that 4-5 matchup with the Memphis Grizzlies. They pull it out 134-127, and I think this is where you see some of the best version of the Lakers. When it comes to Lebron luca and austin reeves, they kind of saved the day for him. Jackson hayes not really a factor too much in this one limited minutes, but those those guys got off and really helped out. What were your impressions of the game?
Speaker 3:bear you know what I was. You know I was okay with it initially. I saw the things that I thought we needed to see as a team, especially offensively and some offensively to get back on track from those horrible losses in the previous two, three games and, being so close to we have a hell of a week coming up where it is critical for us to be playing some of our best ball, not only because the playoffs we want to be on a winning streak or at least a good road running into the playoffs but because the margin for error is so small. Going from where we are now to play in. I don't want to be in a playing situation.
Speaker 3:I think that that goes against us as far as dealing with having LeBron James, and I think that even matchup wise, I think that we'll still get a favorable matchup if we stay on the course that we're staying on. You know I liked it. You know I think that it's clear to see that Austin Reeves is clearly the third guy. I mean we're showing average what 19, 20 points a game. This season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, LeBron has said as much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think that some of the things that we saw transition-wise, defensively I did not like and I know we're going to see. I think part of the issue is when we play against a guard, a quick guard, that becomes our Achilles heel because obviously we don't want the guy, we don't want a guard being able to crash the middle and when there's a quick-footed guard that we're playing, it poses problems defensively for us. Because we know luca, you know for all great, all the greatness he is as far as an offensive side, defensively he's going to struggle and you know, we know that good things never happen when, when, when a guy can get down the middle, you know defensively we're going to start getting our bays and foul trouble. I you love the roll-in up until I want to say, beginning of the third quarter. I like the movement offensively, how we rotated the ball and how we were looking for the extra pass. It was nice because I saw sometimes we made that extra pass and it made it much easier.
Speaker 3:I think we got in transition two, three dunks in a row and it was with ease because we were looking to make that extra pass like two, three dunks in a row, and it was with ease because we were looking to make that extra pass. It's as a Laker, I'm as a Laker. I may be more concerned if I don't see what I need to see, cause, yeah, we got the win, but moving forward, when you understand, like Ooh, we're going to have to play, coming up, I think we need, we should have tightened up more and you don't want to try to attempt that against the coming games that we have where we could possibly lose. I mean there's a big possibility we could lose what Auburn won. I mean one you'd think it's a gimme game, but it's not.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean. You think about it. We think it's a gimme game, but it really isn't. We fought Chicago and Indiana, so it was Orlando and Chicago Right we fought those are gimme games and we got busted in the eye and part of that was due to lack of defense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Indiana was closer than they should have been. A tip-in at the end by far yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, that's because you know the lack of defensive energy. I think that you know we're never and I understand stats-wise, statistically, understand stats, wise, statistically we were looking great, but I knew that that was just the guys feeding off the energy when they had luke and lebron, really, you know, going after loose balls or really stepping in and making an effort to kind of stay in front of their man, if the rest of the team fed off of it. And, being that, lebron james and part of it too, we have to remember lebron james was out, you out for like a week or whatever. So, to get back into the flow and get everything, I knew that was coming. I just thought that some of the games that we played, those were good starter games for him to come back to.
Speaker 3:And we still I mean, I'm upset, don't get me wrong because that put us in this situation. That doesn't look favorable for us. And now the pressure is on and maybe you know, maybe I'm selling LeBron James short and remembering that and he's been in those situations and, by that way, lucas, so I think that we have the potential. This could be great if we can come out like 500, because I don't think that, you know the game's looking ahead. I don't think OKC, and there's no need to. They don't have to play their guys. They'll probably play that first game.
Speaker 1:But I think it's less likely that they'll play their starters that second day april 8th game, yeah, probably not yeah, which see that could help us out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, but we we still have other teams. That's coming along. So it's, it was a good win, it was a quality win. I just said, you know, I wish we would have tightened up the defensive side before we go on this last week or so of games I think we have like six, seven games I just wish we would have tightened up defensively, but besides that, I mean I loved it. I loved it offensively.
Speaker 3:You could tell that we were getting back in the rhythm and that's the most important thing. You could tell that we were getting back in a rhythm and that's the most important thing. And you know, the one thing that we don't talk about is how is our coaching going to come along? I know he's made. You know our coaches made great. You know decisions. You know some questionable earlier in the season, but we all know that. You know playoff ball is a whole different ball game and as a coach, you know the moves that need to be made and everything during the course of the playoffs and depending on who we play which would you know, I think if we were to go today I think you said something like Memphis, we would end up playing. That's not. I mean, you know, come on, you're playing against Ja.
Speaker 3:I think that that would be a great test for us defensively to kind of get everything tightened up in gear for the next round, because that second round could be. I mean, you think, who's still in there? You still got Golden State that's going to be up in there. There's a few teams with great fast guards that Luke is going to have to face that we need to figure out a way to kind of, you know, shield or cover up the you know his inefficiency to be effective defensively against fast guards. So, but besides that, I think we'll be okay.
Speaker 3:But it's just one of those things where I'm still upset behind the last two games because we should have been in a better position now. But I'll take it. A win is a win. But, man, I'll tell you, I mean we kind of we gave it up towards the end where we had to fight back. You know what I mean? That's the thing we cannot do. We have to and I think that's been an issue all year long as we've been getting by since the trade is that we have to stay consistently and actually put teams. Put them down when we have the chance, don't give them a chance to come back, because then we'll come chance. Don't give them a chance to come back, because that will come back to haunt us in the playoffs.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure, ari, as our resident Boston fan. What'd you see? What'd you think of the game?
Speaker 1:Oh, that Memphis game. Yeah, After that second half, when Memphis started to storm back in the third and they got back into it in the fourth, it looked like the Lakers were going to let another one slip away from them and I was thinking like man this is, it's one of two things, maybe it's.
Speaker 1:The Lakers have figured out for the most part what it is they need going into playoffs and they're kind of laying it down, which I don't think they're in a position to be doing at it. They're just sitting at fourth right now, currently Only what? About half a game in front of Memphis, or a game. So it's only about two and a half games that separates them in the seventh seed right now, which is the Warriors. So you can't be that comfortable. They can't feel it.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if it was that because they've let a few slip, that they should not those two Chicago games that last, especially the one, the last one in Chicago, with the way, those antics with turnovers, threes, you know, not getting out, not close, it was exciting.
Speaker 1:I'll give it that. Oh, no, josh getting that halftime shot to win the game was like, yeah, that was crazy. But shot to win the game was like, yeah, that was crazy, but even the Indiana game that tip in to preserve the win or to put them on top actually didn't even preserve it, like they were set to lose that game up until that tip in.
Speaker 1:It's just been too many of these teams I mean these are low quality teams Like you shouldn't be fighting much less losing to them. So I'm not sure if the Lakers are just kind of laying it down and are getting themselves ready for the playoff push and are preserving their energy for that, which I again, I hope they're not in that mindset because you, you've got too many tests coming up. You got, like you said, I believe you mentioned earlier, like they have like the second toughest schedule to end the season and then they're finally games. Sure, you don't really have, you don't have the luxury of laying it down right now to gear up for the. I mean, you got to start getting matter of fact, you got to start finding your rhythm. It's not even about laying it down and getting comfortable.
Speaker 2:You have to gear up.
Speaker 1:You got to get ready. Because again, the more I look at it I know I was kind of worried about, if I'm a Laker fan that Memphis Grizzlies first round matchup the more I look at that team outside of Jaron Jackson, which he quietly, is like the biggest threat to the Lakers winning against them Because he gives them size the Lakers just don't have in the middle. I mean he does, I mean he didn't do a great job.
Speaker 3:He stretches the floor, he does a lot.
Speaker 1:Jaron Jackson, he's the biggest problem in Memphis, if you ask me. I think you can account for Ja to some degree, or let him get his and he's going to do what he does. There's no really. You can minimize him as much as you can, but you can't really stop and job. But it's Jaron Jackson Jr that concerns me. If I'm a Laker fan like that he's that size is something that you just can't. You can't compete with. Like there's not enough lobs. You can throw Jackson Hayes to counter that. So he's the one thing they really can't be accounted for. So that's the one thing I'd be looking at in that first round matchup. But but you got some games down the stretch man rockets, warriors, thunder twice back to back. Yeah, mavericks, which you know ad's in the lineup for that game, that that can go either way. You know what I mean. Depending how motivated they are, the mere fact they're putting him out on the floor to make a push weird to me for the plane.
Speaker 2:Personally I just can't tell value personally.
Speaker 1:Because even if you do make the playoffs, what's your ceiling? First round exit, right, right, but maybe it's just for pride, ad wants to prove yes, and the gentleman is being polite.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about a straight up 4-0 sweep. I ain't even talking about a gentleman sweep. Maybe AD wants to, to kind of show that he is capable of going out there and weathering storm, and maybe it's an ego thing for him. Maybe he needs it more than anything else. I don't think it's wise to risk further injury next season. I mean so they got to stretch, they got the Rockets twice, they have second and last game and the only game I can think of is kind of a gimme game for the Trailblazers. By then I would imagine the Lakers have been situated. They probably won't be starting situated.
Speaker 3:They probably won't be starting. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't think it goes down to the wire in the very last game of the season. I think the Lakers can kind of at least mail it in against Portland, Like you would hope. By that time, like the dust is settled enough that you know where you stand, we don't have to put our starting five on the floor.
Speaker 3:Four through eight is, if it goes wrong, no, the Lakers could. Yeah, considering how they fare prior to that game, I think yeah, and because of who they have to play, they can't meddle in, because if they lose, let's say, two, three games in this last stretch, we're looking at seven eight. Right, it's going to be bad real fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for me what I looked at was one. I agree with you guys, it was a little bit of a reaffirmation that the Grizzlies aren't as scary as some people may think. But where they do excel or where they're most consistent, is Jaron Jackson Jr, because he fills a void that the Lakers can't. You look at that last game Jackson Hayes had. He had two points, five boards on 17 minutes, so they even had to pull him out just to get him out of his own way. It felt like. So you're dealing with that.
Speaker 2:Jared Vanderbilt is not somebody who is going to give you a lot of high volume points. He only played 10 minutes the last game. Six points, four rebounds, one assist not bad numbers. He's always going to be a good defender. You got contributions from Rui and then 13 points. You had Dorian Finney-Smith give you another 11, from Rui and then 13 points. You know you had Dorian Finney-Smith give you another 11, but it was really the three who locked it in. And that's where even LeBron, when he talks, he says you know, we have to be connected, we have to be the driving force.
Speaker 2:I think the only thing that scares me is those last three games or those three losses that we looked at and it's like, yeah, in a race this tight, you can't lose to inferior opponents, and I think the Lakers have done that more than they should, if you look back over the games. So if they can tighten it up, I think we're in a good spot. It's just a matter of making sure that we can really lock up a seed so we know we're playing. I'm with you, rhea. If we can figure out exactly, hey, we can get a three-game win streak, four or five-game win streak and call it and say, look, they can't catch us here, then cool, I'd be resting folks left and right, maybe a game or two before ramp up, just to keep everything moving and loose. But other than that, because there just isn't going to be the one thing about the Western Conference there are going to be no breaks. You are not just going to be able to lay it down, especially if you don't take care of business in the next couple of games. So I guess I mean we'll see again. Lebron luca, austin reeves austin reeves has definitely solidified that third spot in terms of their big three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I I think that's what it's really going to come down to is those three guys being able to lock in and really push. You can't have have these lulls. The Lakers are notoriously bad in the third quarter. I think they need to really focus on that, because you spend all this energy and even when they're not bad in the third if they've had bad first halves they spend so much energy coming back that they can't close those games out. So we'll see. I mean, obviously games are coming fast. We're at the end of the year, so we're going to have to see where they fall. But it'll be interesting because I will tell you, as a basketball fan, the Lakers are a team I would not want to see in any matchups because there's just too much experience, there's too much firepower to where, even with defensive challenges, they could still present enough of a problem to take you out.
Speaker 1:The Lakers are the one team which, despite their defensive deficiency it's crazy to say this I think they're the one team who can be the exception in the sense that they can make up for that deficiency by just enthusiasm alone, because they have the talent. You got LeBron Luka Again. Austin Reeves did not just solidify himself as the number three option for the Lakers, I think he's a legitimate number two elsewhere. Like Austin Reeves is coming on, we should see him in some all-star games in the future, like that's coming soon.
Speaker 1:I mean he's arrived. I mean I'm not. Is he as good as he'll ever get? I'm not sure, maybe. Maybe his ceiling is higher than even I've estimated, but I think he definitely has come on Again. To be a big three in LA says a lot because already established superstar in the league and I hate to use him as an example, but I have to. People like Russell Westbrook, for example, comes to LA and the lights get too bright. So if you can stand up to it now and here in LA, that game travels he can take that elsewhere, and that's your only experience.
Speaker 1:He's only experienced, he's only known the lights of the crypto. That's all he knows and he's shown under those lights. So I know that show can travel elsewhere.
Speaker 3:I think another part that we didn't really plan to that. Me personally, I know that defensively you know the games we lost we weren't best, but most importantly, offensively we're great. See, lebron James, I think, didn't have 20 points, none of those games. I think it was like 17, 19. So I just knew once we got back offensively it would outshine the inefficiencies that we have defensively. And the only thing, too, I'll say is why. I think that this is it starts what. Monday we play the Houston Rockets. We have to make sure that we go over we know when the next five games, because if we don't look at the, I want you guys to go take a look at the Clippers remaining schedule. They have a chance to go ahead and get to us because that schedule was favorable for them. That's the issue. It's not. The issue is that the Lakers have a less than favorable schedule.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 3:If it wasn't for that, I would not be worried. But we're talking about going from where we currently are down to seventh, eighth, with just losing potentially what? Going 500? That's what scares me and that's why I'm just hoping that you know. But I think that you know we'll be fine. My main thing was us finding the offensive rhythm. I think that when you talk about AD coming in, I think AD is just trying to give them hope, to show that once we get everybody to full strength Hopefully we know he's injury prone it's a big gamble doing that. I think he's going to go out there and try to play outstanding basketball. Oh for sure, gamble doing that.
Speaker 3:But I think he's going to go out there and try to play outstanding basketball, not only we're going to play the Lakers and he wants to shine because remember last time we played him, listen, his 80s first outing was I mean he gave him pause to be like, okay, I can see it.
Speaker 1:I can see it, let's be honest with him.
Speaker 3:The injuries to that team were so okay, I can see it, I can see it, let's be honest with it, man. The injuries to that team was so detrimental. You don't see it like this. So it's one of those things where I think I'm telling you, I think Dallas is going to be fine next year, as long as AD can stay healthy. Those guys come back. They're going to be a force. I think they have a great coach. They have a great coach. They have a great core. You know, and, and honestly, for nico's sake, boy, they better come back, as if not, oh my god, he won't make, if listen, if ad will be at the front desk he's a dead man walking his weight like
Speaker 1:oh no, listen, he's a dead man walking man.
Speaker 3:I'm not even like they don't have to be playing well in the in the nba season next year. They have to be dominant. I mean like they have to be, especially the. L mean like they have to, Especially if the Lakers, go on a run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's going to be hard to swallow.
Speaker 3:You know what They'll be. Like nah, being in the top four ain't going to be good enough. Like we need to be top of the West For him to keep his job. They got to start out and be that team.
Speaker 1:Like it's is to lose for them. Yeah, and I want to ask our coach on the panel for y'all who don't know, chris, when a coach, I want to say well, over 20 years now, fresh out of high school, among other things. But before we push on to the next topic, right, this Laker team? Can they do you think it's possible that the Lakers can be the team, or has it already been done, to our knowledge? Maybe we don't realize? Can they dispel the myth or the rumor or the longstanding conventional wisdom that defense wins championship, and be the first team to overcome defense and win by way of offense?
Speaker 2:That's a great question For me. I don't think if solely their offense is all it is, I don't think they can do it. And I say that because we've seen when they are playing their best, they are high energy, they are trapping, like when their defense turned a page. For me was that Denver game when they smothered Jokic in their face with hands, were very active. When we're doubling, we're fronting. We got front and back we're moving to the sides. You know like we're covering wings.
Speaker 2:If you look at what happened in Chicago, for example, it was given up to three ball right, they just they were chasing the ball entirely too much. And teams the NBA is too much of a shooting team to not have the ability to stop somebody from hitting shots. That's going to be a problem. So I think they can give a run. I mean, you look at the score from last night Austin put up 31. Luka put up 29. Lebron put up 25. If you get a few more guys like you had Rui with 13,. Doreen Finney-Smith gave you 11,. Gabe Vinson gave you 15. If you can keep that going, you're going to win more games. But to keep in mind that the type of players you have, the young athletic guys that you have to deal with them like a Houston. Getting those guys open on wings, that's going to be problematic. Teams like the Warriors who are fighting and climbing where it's like, no, we have the most dangerous three-point shooter in this sport's history, that's going to be a problem. So I think overall I think with their best defense that we've seen from the Lakers, they can compete, if it's what we've seen I would say the last five or six games. No, I think what can help the Lakers being an older team, when you look at LeBron I mean from LeBron's standpoint is the advantage is it slows down and you know your opponent right, because now this is just a matchup and you have to figure out how to get to four games before the next team and you're really trying to exploit those matchups.
Speaker 2:So I think that makes it easier, because going from Houston to OKC it's a different feel. Right? Shea is Shea and OK. Now we have an absolute superstar. We know exactly what they're going to do. He has probably the best role players.
Speaker 2:You bring in somebody like Caruso, who used to be with us, who's a great wing defender, can knock down shots. So you have all these little dynamics. Houston is going to be athleticism. So even if you were to play them in a series, it's like, okay, we have to contend with that youth for four games. What do we do? We slow it down, give me a ball in the post, make them adjust to me. This might actually be advantageous to us if we can still get Jackson Hayes rolling and things like that. So I think the Lakers' best version of their defense can dispel the myth that you can't be an absolute defensive monster. But even if you look at when they've been playing defense well, they've played defense very well where they've upticked to where it's like it's not impossible. But the version we've seen the last five games, I don't think they can win a championship playing that way.
Speaker 2:I think they can win some games and even a series or two possibly, but I don't think you can get up against like a Boston and be able to consistently pull out games with just Luka going for 35 or 40, even If LeBron's going for 15 or 19,. I don't think that's enough. And Boston, for example, is a team who will smother you. They love getting out, they love putting pressure on the wings because that's where their two best players are, so they have a unique set of skills. Where, actually, where most teams are lacking is where our superstars are. So I don't think they can win a championship not playing their best version, but if they are playing their best defense, yeah, I think they can. They can be a contender, that's fair.
Speaker 1:That seems to be.
Speaker 3:So that's what I'm seeing.
Speaker 2:You're right, yeah, and I mean the proof is in the wind when we look at the games they've lost. It's because Wagner and some of these other people have got off wide open threes and they're putting them up at high volume and people aren't recovering. It's bad turnovers, it's not getting steals and going for steals when you know you're two steps slower. And now they got wide open shots and they're just burying them. So I think if they can sit back, recognize where their strengths lie, you know, especially when you have a point guard like Luca, he is not somebody who is going to speed up.
Speaker 2:So if you can sit and be who you are, then I've always, every team I've coached, I've made sure we have a culture and we have an identity. So, regardless of what happens in the game, we do what we need to do. If I'm constantly trying to play their game, I've lost in essence, right. If I can get them to do what we are comfortable with, our chances go up way way more. So it's kind of how I look at it. Can't beat them at their game. That's just usually how they go, absolutely Take the fight to your advantage, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I guess we'll see what the rest of the year looks like here, but it's going to be a tough stretch. But as the weeks go on, we'll keep talking about it and see, kind of, where it falls. With that being said, we are in the middle of the madness. All right, we've got two men's teams who've punched their tickets so far, florida and Duke. You know that Final four I was. So far, florida and duke, you know, final four. I was gonna say here we go, listen, this duke theme is coming up. Boy, you talked about having a year of all the years to have a podcast bear. This is the one where this man is getting off. Yeah, but tell you the lady, lady, blue devils are down by two right now in a tough fight with, uh, south carolina, and they are do? We got 32.6 seconds left down by two. So we'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 3:They get the ball, I believe, and get inbounded. Well, I mean, it's just going to be one of those situations where I mean, listen, I don't have any dog in the race.
Speaker 1:I just like watching great basketball.
Speaker 3:Trust me, y'all, I don't want to hear this man just go like that. I'm looking at it now. I don't want to hear this man just like that. I don't, I really. I'm looking at it now Like I mean, I don't. I don't wish that on Duke, but damn, I want North you know South Carolina to pull this one off. That way he only has one oh for the ladies. Yeah, for the ladies.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is it's. You know it's pretty much gone the way that we expect it. You know I ain't here or there. For the most part that was like, oh, I didn't expect them to lose. But you know, all the big dogs are still in it, although I will say you know I'm not a Duke fan, but Duke looks very great. I mean, especially with the size that they have, duke look like it is hard.
Speaker 2:They're going to be a tough guy. Just their ability to get out come downhill is one of the things I'm impressed with. They will get downhill, cooper will get downhill. Duke's guards are strong. They take care of the ball for the most part. They do a good job of hitting wide open shots. But anytime a team can get downhill, if you can get in the middle of the floor you force everybody else to adjust and in that adjustment phase you tend to find easy baskets.
Speaker 2:So you got Duke, who's punched their ticket. You've got Florida, who's punched their ticket. You've got Florida who's punched their ticket? No real surprise there, even though that was close. You've got Auburn and Michigan playing today, michigan State and then you've got Houston and Tennessee, both of those teams fighting for that final four. But Bear to your point, when we talk about all the surprises and Cinderella's and everything, the lowest seed between men and women is a three seed and that three seed is even lsu, and that's on the women's side. So I mean lsu is a historical one seed. You know what I mean. So when you, as much as we, get caught up in the fanfare and the hype, it kind of all plays out the way it's supposed to. What are your thoughts, rick?
Speaker 1:we discussed that a little bit earlier before the show. But it is amazing that for all of the expectation of surprises upsets I mean, because ultimately it's anybody's tournament to win If you can string along five, six good games, you can get what? Four games you get to Final Four, which we're down to now. Two of the field has already punched their tickets and obviously you mentioned Florida and Duke. If you can string together a nice run, you can find you. I mean, every now and again you'll get a butler.
Speaker 1:But typically speaking, for all the excitement that we want out of it, all the fanfare and the surprise, it usually shakes out the same way. It's the same Power 5 with Power 4 teams now with the virtual absolution of the Pac-10, pac-12. You get the same teams. When it all shakes out, when the dust has settled, you're going to get a Big Ten, a Big East, acc, sec, some configuration of that. That's how it shakes out every single time. Every now and again you might get a mid-major who'll make a deep run, maybe an Elite Eight, maybe a Final Four, if they're lucky.
Speaker 1:The Butlers are few and far between. I can't think of any other team that was kind of an unknown program to find itself in a championship game in college basketball. I can't think of any other exception but that team. In recent history you might get a lower seed. That lower seed's still coming from a program that's recognizable. You know who they are. You might get a Wisconsin or something in a championship game, but you, that's a big program. You know what I mean. Like right, you've heard of them. It's not a middle ohio valley state university making a deep run. Yeah, it's not a loyal to chicago can't get country, yeah, yeah well, I mean, you know what?
Speaker 3:we don't even. We didn't even get the the gonzaga kind of make a major push this year, like that that's. That's, you know what? We don't even. We didn't even get the the Gonzaga kind of make a major push this year. Like that, that's that's.
Speaker 1:You know what we don't expect it and that's kind of standard right by now, right.
Speaker 3:We kind of expect them to make it, you know, interesting to where it is, could they? We know they ultimately don't win, but could they make it interesting? You know what I mean, Because they're playing so well and I just think that. I mean man, I hate to say it again, man, duke to me is the best team that's left. I think that Florida really shook me at the last game. That was a tough game for Florida Same thing with Houston.
Speaker 2:With them, they barely went in on a buzzer beater, so yeah.
Speaker 3:In terms of consistency.
Speaker 2:Duke is a favorite at the moment, for sure, I mean.
Speaker 3:I thought Texas Tech. Well, I said, oh, they're going to pull it out and you know they end up not doing it. But I think Florida was to me. I needed to see. You know, what Duke is showing me is that they're running away with it. You know their talent, their skill set, their coaching defensive set that they have. I think that they're showing, they're peaking when they need to A lot of the teams, you know there's some close calls. Duke is being dominant, they're taking control of the game and they're not giving you any and that's the way you need to play. As each you know well as the progression goes on to each you know each level of the tournament.
Speaker 1:That Arizona game had me pissed off. Not gonna lie.
Speaker 3:Letting them get back, yeah, but the last two games, you guys right, I think that's part of it All they did was make me miss Caleb Love and Carolina.
Speaker 1:Man, he was pissing me off. That dude, I'm like I wish he would have stayed in North Carolina. They could have found a way to keep that one in Chapel Hill. There's no way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a whole podcast.
Speaker 1:But what I've been impressed by and what I've loved so much is that we do not need Cooper Flagg to be the hero every game. That's the key.
Speaker 3:Like we've been able to win conventionally without Cooper Flagg. You just hit on the biggest point for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah he doesn't have to be the best player in college basketball every single night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, we still got Conn Kinep.
Speaker 1:Most nights, we still have Milowich who was altering all kind of shots, like in the. That sheet doesn't show that he altered more shots than we can count on our hands and toes Right we see the two blocks on that sheet, but again, the effect that he had defensively outside of just getting blocks. I mean Cooper Flagg. The thing about him that's so great is he can make up for his lack of offensive production with his defense. I mean he is a straight up dog defender. He can get blocked shots. He's got busy hands. He knows the passing lanes.
Speaker 1:Cooper flag is a two-way player, three level score, six, nine. So again, you don't you don't need him to be all world every night. Again, we still got khan out there, you got foster, my man scion. We've got a pretty balanced team and they're coming on at the right time. I you know, of course I can't love it more, but it'd be nice to see cooper flag just have that that real big larry burtwell, larry burt ultimately loses in the finals, but to have that moment to really propel him, because I think otherwise, if he doesn't win, a good thing about cooper flag is we we stand a chance to see him again in college next year. If it doesn't work out, there's a possibility you think, so you think there's a possibility that he actually turns next year.
Speaker 2:I think he, I think he would stay. Just considering the landscape and what's going on in the nba, I could totally see him staying like yeah, I see a win, that would have me at number one.
Speaker 1:You'd be like, yeah, I'm cool, because right now he's pretty much the number one pick as it stands, like I don't think anybody else is really but a championship kind of solidifies that and at that point like what are you staying for? I mean, maybe he just he's enjoying his college journey, it's fun to him, he wants another crack at it, back to back. If he can do it this year and then come back and do it again, that'll really. But I mean your stock can't get me hired number one right what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like so yeah, yeah, you should go.
Speaker 1:If you win, yeah, talking about staying becomes like yeah, that's just a bad business decision but this is where the NIL it can be helpful, because now there's no rush to go, I'm being compensated right now I'm having a good time.
Speaker 2:I have no real pressure on me.
Speaker 1:I'm at the college level. It's not the same level of pressure as playing in the pros. Like that kind of is helpful at this point for guys who care about the college game and their college experience and being a college student athlete. Like for those guys, you got all the incentive you need right there.
Speaker 3:You don't have to go to the next level, even if it's way better, you can put it off another year or two I think that you know to your point, ria, I understand what you're saying, but when you look at, let's go to the women's side we saw our girl, juju, go down that was unfortunate Right.
Speaker 2:And those things right.
Speaker 3:So my whole thing isn't as so unfortunate because you know all the now that we can say it. You know, on re they ran on your parade, you know South Carolina ended up pulling it out, so but just the fact that we could have potentially seen something we could have seen. I mean, think about who could have been in the Elite Eight. You're still going to have, you know, usc still in it, but you got the Ucons on the women's side. You still have, you know, south Carolina and you still have LSU. Potentially that can go to, you know that can still make it.
Speaker 3:We're looking at I mean and to see Juju be up in there. I think from woman's side I'm talking about the firepower that would have still been in the tournament and where that could have ended up. That's why I'm saying you're looking at Cooper Cup. Do you want to risk that injury? Things can happen, we understand that. But do you want to risk the fact that you can get injured coming back after next season?
Speaker 3:I understand that we don't have a crystal ball. I think you can't play scared but ultimately, like you said, from a business perspective, yes, he can still get an IL deal, but the odds is he's going to go to a bad team, regardless, this year or next year, but it doesn't matter, he's still going to go to a bad team. So if that's your, you know the premise for you wanting to stay man, thinking that, well, maybe someone will get lucky and draw the number one pick next year. That isn't a bad. Now, don't get me wrong. You can go to a. There's a difference in going to a bad team versus just a bad franchise. Historically, and I get that.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 3:That could be one of those things. I don't know who has the draft this year. I haven't checked but the fact still remains that it's going to come down if they win or lose, and I don't you know what. I'm not sure because, like you said, I don't, we don't know what's motivation, his motivation, could be. Maybe if he does win one, I want to win another one, back to back, and we go back to back get this florida guys going on yeah right, so I can see both ways.
Speaker 3:But I just man, in today's climate, yeah, just looking at juju, I mean, man, luckily she's going to be a high pick regardless. Juju is going to go, you know, but still, still, though, you know we're talking about injuries that can control, you know, major injury, surgery that can control, you know, your, your future, do you come back? The same? We know that knee injuries aren't as bad as they used to be. Like back in the day where you got acl was like doom and gloom. But still, to get back to that player, it's a whole lot of rehabilitation and things that go on and the fact that she's played late in the season. We're in the tournament. She got injured not early in the season where she'll be ready. It's going to take some time to get back to that form. We'll see.
Speaker 1:But, Andre, you still got one team left. What I did not consider, though on the men's side there's more urgency, in the sense that you stand to lose something if it doesn't go your way, Whereas Juju has more incentive now to stay in college than she does to go to the WNBA.
Speaker 2:As has more incentive now to stay in college than she does to go to the.
Speaker 1:WNBA.
Speaker 3:As much as we want to see her at the next level, Way more than she'll get paid. Well, it's awards and everything. Out here. Y'all if y'all in LA, I mean it's crazy. It's juju madness, out here.
Speaker 1:Whereas on the men's side, I don't give a damn how much you're getting paid in NIL money. It pales in comparison to the NBA contract and what you stay in the game. So there's more urgency on his side. If he has people on his ears he has advisors, he has, I'm sure, agents and the like they probably advise him to punch out this year and go to the draft at your highest. When your stock has reached its highest, that's when it's time for you to go. So if he's got wise people on his corner, they're advising him to leave. But again, it'll come down. He's an adult. Well, he just became. I'll leave. Now. We're talking about a dude who was 17 up until December. Wow, having a season that he's having. This is a teenage and, by all accounts, he should be a senior in high school. He left early to go to Duke. Yeah, he should be a senior right now at at Montverde Academy in Florida, but he chose to end his high school career, play college ball early and enroll early.
Speaker 3:So this is a guy who just turned 18.
Speaker 2:This is also the same kid who was giving buckets to the NBA team as they were preparing for the Olympics. I mean, he's the real deal. That's wild.
Speaker 1:He's the real deal, so a championship this year would definitely be great for him. I'd be grateful. I mean a whole other conversation. It I'd be grateful. I mean a whole other conversation. It's a game for American basketball, if you dig what I'm saying deeper beating. It really is, though.
Speaker 3:Oh, they're counting on me.
Speaker 1:It's a shot in the arm of the game needs right now. Let's be honest about that.
Speaker 3:Like somebody got to have a conversation.
Speaker 1:It might as well be us right.
Speaker 3:Well, this previous conversation we talked about that and I think you know to cut you off Reed when we talked about, you know, the NBA. We're waiting for the next American superstar not just superstar, because there's a lot of guys right now, but American superstar.
Speaker 1:And this guy, you know this kid, Not just American superstar. Come on now.
Speaker 3:Oh, we can talk about that. We're looking, listen, we're looking for the next magic bird situation, and with Cooper, we're talking about, about with cup, we're looking at what I mean flag. I'm sorry, I always get it, but so we another bad white boy, by the way well, yeah, who would be the?
Speaker 3:I mean, obviously, and listen, and he's young and you know he comes the background. We're talking about this procedure of going to duke coming out. I mean, honestly, I'm not going to say this and don't shoot me for it, Henri I think Duke needs this because we're talking about they've had a lot of guys, great white players, that didn't pan out in the NBA. He could be. I'm talking about he could be an impact. Think about how young he is and his upside of it. I mean this kid has the potential, depending on where he goes you know, I know a lot of that plays a role into it which franchise he goes to. This has the potential to be something big and him being so young, I don't know. I mean he could just be having fun. I mean I hope he comes out. I know the league hopes he comes out. He's legit.
Speaker 1:He's the real deal. This is a genuine article right here. Man, listen, you got a white dude. Let's keep it a meme.
Speaker 1:Small town America from some small town in Maine. I'm sure most of us don't even know where the hell Maine is on a map. The geographically challenged probably can't. You know what I mean. Yeah, you don't know. It's somewhere in the New England area. Where exactly, for those who don't know, the northeastern most state in the union. Right, there you go. If you didn't know nothing, you learned something today other than basketball.
Speaker 1:But I mean, white dude from a small town, real deal. Can really go Now. Granted, he's not putting a program on the back the way Larry Bird did with Indiana State, who hasn't really been noteworthy since then, like they've done nothing of note for real in any sport outside of Larry Bird's appearance in a championship game in 79 against Magic Johnson in that team. But we have all the makings of a Larry Bird-esque situation. He's the real deal. I mean, does he go to what? I mean the NBA has to start thinking long and hard about where he lands, because it has to be the absolute best and most optimal situation for him and the storyline, quite frankly, I mean the.
Speaker 1:NBA could use it. Basketball needs it in this country. It's a shot in the arm that we desperately need because we have not had a real. There hasn't really been anyone on the horizon coming up, young basketball player who seems to be ready to take the helm right now. Cooper, right now, is the best candidate, if you ask me, is it great that he happens to be a Blue Devil? Of course, bonus points, no doubt. But I will say and listen, I don't mean to gloat, I know it was going to be a bragging session. We fared pretty well in terms of NBA stars. We had Zion, we've had quite a few, I think, as of late we've been winning the battle Like y'all got Michael Jordan the greatest of them all, as of late we've been putting out some stars in the league Don't start that I'm just saying.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying we have our Jordan, but I'm saying we've been putting our output of star players in Paulo Banqueiro, Kyrie Irving.
Speaker 2:Yes, you guys have had more people translate better into the professional game because, well, one, you got to remember, carolina has a history of bigs and the bigs that we have who are really good are good college players. One, I think they know that Right, whether it's a Tyler Hansborough, whether it's a Sean May, you look at a lot of these guys Deion Thompson, when he was coming through most of these bigs, when you really get into like the last, you know, our, our Mount Rushmore bigs, that's when you get into like your Sam Perkins and your Rasheed Wallace's and dudes like that. But beyond that, yeah. And then we've we've had guards who have been very successful, but not I mean Ty Lawson had a great career when he was with Denver, you know what I mean. Rashawn McCants maybe not as much, but we, yeah, in terms of the NBA translation, yeah, you guys got it. I'm not disputing that overall. Now, if we're talking about putting together an all-time Carolina versus.
Speaker 2:Duke, that's going to get real interesting and that might actually be a future podcast, now that I think about it, but now it is a legitimate matchup.
Speaker 1:now it was a time where we didn't stand a chance.
Speaker 2:We would have got washed. I was going to say we might have to make those arguments Bear and you have to be the final judge and jury and executioner on who would win. That that might actually be kind of fun, I mean Duke got it.
Speaker 3:I mean, listen, it's going to be hard because you know, albeit always go back to it man grant hill is going to be one of those things where he could push it over the edge because we knew where he was. But you could, carolina had some. Carolina had some great teams let's say, yeah, you still.
Speaker 1:You still got james worthy, you still got you know, rashid, you get you you've got some folks in there that, yeah, yeah, you got some players, for sure, yeah y'all definitely would have way more depth than we do. Y'all definitely would have way more depth than we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, if it got down to the bench it'd be. It's a wrap by that point. Yeah, where you guys are going to get us is in that guard play. Guard play is going to cause some problems. But yeah, I mean, but Duke is nothing to shine away from Coach K for everything that he was was a great leader and he had great players come through his program. He had very intellectual people come through. If you look at that Duke footprint and not to get off, you had people like Elton Brand go into front offices and you know Trajan Langdon and all these historic Blue Devils. So there is something to the sauce. That was Coach K when it came to Duke. But yeah, with that being said, I think it sounds like for the most part, we think Duke is going to take it. For the men, what?
Speaker 1:I mean, now that they've survived, this close call. Yeah, I guess South Carolina, I mean they've got to be better. It's always hard to go against yeah because teams like that every now and again. They just need a challenge. They got to be pushed, they need a wake-up, and now they've gotten that wake-up call. We're not invincible. They'll probably run through the rest of the tournament as expected this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lost none last year. I'm going to say something, man.
Speaker 3:I just thought this would have been a year that it would have been a real possibility that USC would have been great.
Speaker 1:It definitely would have been.
Speaker 2:As Cowboys go to that village. That would have been nice.
Speaker 3:And I'm not saying this because Juju is great, I just think you would. You know, you know, of course you know Southern California is a revival. I think they were the favorites. I'm looking at the. You know the. Maybe you know Duke played a great game. I think Duke exposed a lot right now to South Carolina on the defensive side. It seems like way more aggressive.
Speaker 2:Oh man, you have to see, that's their style.
Speaker 3:On the defensive side it seems like way more aggressive. Oh man, you, you have to see, that's their style. They love to be aggressive in their play, but you got to use that to their advantage. I mean, they almost lost the game at the end due to the, you know, being aggressive and all you have to do is just be able to be at the right places. You know, we know, defensive it's about, part of it is just hustle and anticipation. That's how you get the charges and everything and those that kind of that almost got him at the end of the game.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was, it was a big play. They just couldn't convert off the charge, you know, off the you know it was. They couldn't convert enough and that's what caused the game at the end. And South Carolina kept their composure, you know. But it was a good game. It's not going to shock me if South Carolina wins, but LSU, even though they're a three seed, and that's because it's the beauty of, I think you know the beauty of the tournament is all you need is one game. If they can make it there, I think that they have a great chance and it wouldn't shock me if they were to beat South Carolina If they were to make it to the big game LSU, which I think that's the.
Speaker 1:They got to get past the UCLA team and that's a tall order.
Speaker 2:UCLA is going to be in a fight tonight.
Speaker 1:That's a tall order and Lauren Betts, no pun intended.
Speaker 3:UCLA has been great, but they've been, I think, on the women's side. They've been kind of surprised. I don't think people were expecting them to play as good as they are.
Speaker 1:They're number one seed, so you don't expect them to be where they are.
Speaker 3:I think, out of all the number one seeds, I think that I would still think that playing against LSU this is going to be a tough one. I understand last year, we understand this is really kind of a revenge game too. It wouldn't shock me if UCLA actually won, because they forgot the taste in their mouth from last year. They still got that bitter taste of losing. What was it? Sweet 16 to LSU. So it's going to be interesting. I mean, this is something, man, I'm telling you right now that from the woman's side, it is looking great. I think the woman's, you know college basketball and particularly, too, if this can translate into the WNBA, I think they're going to be good for the next three to five years If they know how to play this right, If they know how to, because they got, I mean, these women, these listen people, these women, these women basketball players are balling, they are putting up, I mean, what you know, I understand their game is in a better place than the men's game right now.
Speaker 3:I think there's not a doubt about that.
Speaker 2:You took college and professionally, because what the women are doing is they are bringing people in. But one of the knocks on women basketball was the fact that it just wasn't entertaining. It was a lot of now for me, from a coaching standpoint. I've always watched the women's game because when you talk about sets, when you talk about execution, where the evolution of the game has come in is now you have female players with Wiggle. You look at Juju and what she's able to do, you know. You start to look across the landscape and you are starting to see these women have some of the moves Right Now. Think about the compare oh, she's the Kyrie of boom boom. And so now that means that that game has evolved. The way they play, the way they move, has become closer to what we were accustomed to in men's game. But there's your structure, the timing, their star power and people like Angel Reese coming on, caitlin Clark those types of people who will now carry you.
Speaker 2:Look at some of the names of the league. You know when you start talking about Cynthia Cooper, lisa Leslie, cheryl Swoops, Tina Thompson. I mean there's a million women who have come through, who have had an impact. But it's a matter of timing and star power aligning. They had arguably more star power when they first started because you had so many amazing female women players, but it wasn't the entertainment value, it wasn't the intrigue. They couldn't. I think they were fighting their identity of what their league would look like and it stifled what should have been the golding. And it was still from a basketball standpoint. Those women laid the foundation for some of the best basketball we've seen and if you go and look back I mean even Dawn Staley as she's coaching at South Carolina you see the impact that they've had.
Speaker 2:But I think it's a matter of timing and where they are, where the men are starting to struggle in terms of all right. We've just become a league of three-pointers. There's a lot of complaining. There's a lot of you know the officiating. There's so many things in the men's game.
Speaker 2:You're trading star players now in the middle of the season and there's, the men's game is in flux and the women's game has really found a nice point where they're settling in and they're thriving and they're bringing us along and, furthermore, we're now interested in the journey. We mentioned lauren betts. You would not have known a ucla right, arguably, a couple of years ago, but but now it's like no, the conversation flows the same way. They are in a great place and we look forward to just seeing that continue to thrive, and I think that's the beauty of it, because what we are now falling in love with is basketball versus men's basketball, and I think that, for me personally, is the best part of this. We are just loving the game that we love, and now we're rooting for whoever's playing that game the best way and the right way. But there's an entertainment factor that is across the board that I don't feel like we've ever seen as a product.
Speaker 1:The women have kind of figured it out. They figured it out as a product On a college level. They've done things like gotten rid of the halves, four quarters.
Speaker 2:So it's more comparable. The men need to.
Speaker 1:They really need to hurry up, because LeBron made a great point and we'll transition to that later in his interview that it's a whole different game and I've realized there have been years where my interest has waned in college basketball because the difference is so vast that 30-second shot clock makes again in possessions we discussed earlier if you're down by 10 with about five minutes left.
Speaker 1:In college basketball that's pretty much the end for you, like there is no real rallying. Of course you have your exceptions. It happens every now and again, but the likelihood isn't there because it isn't a game of runs. You don't get the same amount of possessions. But back to the women's game, the excitement and all. I can rattle off a number. Every team in the tournament just about I can tell you their best player. You got storylines like hayley van, who proved everybody wrong by leaving LSU. Well, first leaving Louisville, first then LSU, and now at TCU knocking off that powerful Notre Dame team headed by Hannah Hildago. She's a little firecracker. She's nice To be as little as she is. She's going to find a home in the WNBA, I mean, and she's going to be an exception as a player of her first size.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:You've got Lauren Betts Again. You've got Haley Van Liff, you've got Juju Watkins. You've got Paige Beckers, who's still in it, who might arguably be the best player in college basketball this year. Right, there are her. And Kaitlyn Clark. I mean, should she have come out last year? If she was eligible, I would have liked to have seen her in WNB going to go. But we'll get our chance to see it. But you've got, when I say, an influx of stars coming into the women's game, yeah, you got Malaysia full wild. You've got. You've got a ton of girls, man, who were, who are coming very soon. It's really interesting now. And the other thing about the women's game You've seen men hanging.
Speaker 3:Hey man, I'm tempted to cop a couple, maybe Andrew Wilson or something like that I will give you two guys credit, though you guys brought me in because I'm not going to lie from entertainment standpoint.
Speaker 1:You were a skeptic to say the least.
Speaker 3:Right, right, right. But I'm saying now the fluidity in which the women play, you know, with that wiggle, the game that they have. Because one thing with the men's, we understand they're more athletic, they'll be able to jump out the gym and things. It's the dunking aspect. But what a woman can do with the women's basketball, which is still the pure form of the basketball, is be able to dribble, pass, get the shot.
Speaker 3:The inside, the little nuances of the game, I mean because some of these women are handling them to rock, it reminds me I mean they got that. Like I said, they got that Kyrie, they got that Ezi, they got the, you know, the Eurostep, you can see all that and they play with like a smoothness to the game and I think that, like you said, henry, playing with four quarters is something that there's. They play at a different flow because of it. The men's basketball, those two halves, it can become drawn out and, like you said, it's one of those things where second half you go down by 10, but the women's basketball, you still got that fourth quarter. I mean the game. We just saw that come back because duke started to take control and we were up on them.
Speaker 3:But it's it, I it's. I think it's a psychological thing too, not to mention the shot clock, the shot clock being 30. I think it allows for a slower game and women's basketball. It's a bit, if you look at it, the speed is a little bit faster and I think as men, we we appreciate a much. You know it's okay to set up and be able to run your offense, but when you know you have so much time on the shot clock it's very draining. Instead of for the last shot you know I don't 30 seconds is just too long. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, when you think about it, what's closer to professional?
Speaker 3:basketball the women's game or the men's game? Which more is close to professional Bell? It's the men's game. Which more is close to professional bell? It's the women's game. The way it's constructed, the four quarters and everything, and the way they're playing it's more reminiscent of something that we like, and I think that's something that college basketball is going to have to make adjustments to if they want to play their part in the evolution and the women's game has evolved, and basketball hasn't.
Speaker 1:There is the fun of kind of acclimating yourself and getting and familiarizing yourself with something that seems new. They got they got that going for them too. They're the new kid on the block, they're the new toy. So learning that is kind of fun and that's fun in and of itself. So they've got that going for them too. They've got a good product. They've got the players soon to come, there'll be the personalities as well. You'll have your Charles Barkley's, your, you name it. So when they start to mature more and they figure that part out and they really learn how to fully get into sports entertainment, the product will get that much better. So you know shout out to the ladies.
Speaker 1:They're doing a great job.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to it. Keep it up and we're rooting for you and supporting. That's the other thing that I, like you know. As someone who coached for a number of years, I've always just been in love with basketball and what basketball brings. I agree, early on there was little interest in the game for me because, outside of just I love the structure of, because I had to watch sets, in terms of plays and everything. I thought the women did a much better job of that. But a lot of that was a byproduct of slower, not as athletic, so it was like we have to find ways to get these shots off now. It's like, hey, get her the ball and get out the way. So there's a level of excitement that just comes with that. All right, well, I guess pretty soon here we're going to know who's who, so we'll keep our coverage on that. All right, fellas, it's time to talk about it.
Speaker 1:The moment we've been waiting for.
Speaker 2:We've got to get into this. In this corner one LeBron James versus the newly renewed contracted Stephen A Smith, this kind of took over as a basketball-focused and centric podcast. We couldn't skip it. I know everybody's probably had their opinion let's, let's just get into it. So lebron took his uh talents to the pat mcafee show, had a lot to say, found it ironic that he went on an espn partner show right after first take that was a shock really.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say LeBron's a mastermind, yeah, and there was some critiquing about who he chose to go see versus all his friends and some other folks. So that's an interesting wrinkle that came out of it. But the drama of it all and I'm going to let y'all just have at it here and kind of sit back. So, rhi, let's start with you. When you saw the interview, when you heard LeBron and then Stephen A's rebuttal, what were your thoughts?
Speaker 1:To be really honest, and I hate that I haven't. I've had plenty of time and I have not done it. I haven't even heard Stephen A's rebuttal His second rebuttal, of sorts. Yeah, I thought this thing would have been over after his appearance on Gil's Arena? It wasn't, and for as much as people made a big deal of LeBron's appearance on Pat McAfee's show, he didn't really go deep in the weeds about this whole Stephen AD. He touched on it and they moved on.
Speaker 2:They did not. It wasn't a, they didn't focus on it. I thought it was much more based on all the buzz and the feedback and everything. I thought, oh, LeBron then went in and lost his mind and went rogue.
Speaker 1:That's what I was expecting to see After watching the entire thing.
Speaker 2:I was like wow.
Speaker 1:There's damn near much ado about nothing on his side.
Speaker 2:About nothing, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's way more of a Stephen A issue from my estimation, like he needs this more than LeBron needs it. Obviously, you know LeBron is a global icon or as popular as Stephen A is in the sports media. You're not LeBron James, so LeBron does not need this. This does nothing for his brand, nothing for his legacy. Lebron just don't need this shit, straight up and down. Whereas Stephen A, like you said, newly contracted at ESPN and really I noticed like the convenience of when he decided to start spouting off and then posturing and damn near playing tough guy was after he got that contract, once the ink dried. Now Steve Aneas kind of got into big Monroe. Now he you know what I'm saying Now he on some badmunting you know what I mean Like what's up.
Speaker 1:Like come on, dog Like this is not you. All this posturing about what he would have done in retaliation against Would have swung on him immediately. Listen, the fact that you even it's posturing because you're pretending as if LeBron had any intent on doing that. We're talking about a man who was so savvy, media trained, has more. Lebron James is not about to risk his reputation for Stephen A Smith in front of the world to see For the fact that you thought that was even part of his thought process. Either you think that little of him or you think too much of your damn self Like. But you couldn't be more wrong and it was just silly that, first of all, it wouldn't have got there. Secondly, he would have slid you on the first punch.
Speaker 2:You're not getting a chance to swing back. This is a wrap.
Speaker 1:It's a wrap. It's not a competition. As a man, I know your pride stands in the way and you got to be able to act like oh, I would have done. It's a whole bunch of woulda, shoulda, couldas. The fact of the matter is you wasn't going to do nothing, or nothing Like most people against a 6'9" 260, 70-pound world-class athlete man, stop it. I'd like to believe I would fare pretty good against just about anybody. I have that kind of confidence in myself to defend myself.
Speaker 1:But the reality of the matter is this man gets up every day to train and condition his body to play 48 minutes of basketball, which puts him in far better standing than me, you know what I'm saying, not to mention just the hours he puts in on his body in general to stay in that peak condition.
Speaker 1:So for you, stephen A Smith, who was all of 120 pounds with a 50-pound weight, you know what I'm saying, bro, you ain't stopping. Knock that off and to act like, because, from what we can all tell, we don't know exactly what was said. The audio wasn't the clearest. It didn't seem to be much of a dialogue when he was in your face.
Speaker 3:It was a very one-sided conversation. It was a whole bunch of nods.
Speaker 1:Damn near awesome, it was some yes sirs basically.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, that's what I saw.
Speaker 1:So for you to act like it was anything other than a monologue. Bro, knock it off Stephen A. There's not much more I need to hear about him, but there are some. There's some. There could be some fallout from this that neither can recover from. That can be really damaging to both brands. I don't think Stephen A wants that. At the end of the day, like LeBron can risk his brand, he's still going to be LeBron James, the billionaire for all we know.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and he's going to keep building his brand and diversifying it.
Speaker 1:Steven, if it doesn't work for you in sports media and at ESPN you can't get the big contracts. Where do you go from there? Because he's running the risk of killing off his credibility, his ability to talk to athletes. He's slowly going to lose their trust because now I can't tell you, because the minute we fall out you'll run to the cameras with all of my deepest, darkest secrets. Now who needs that? So you know that the whole thing is as entertaining as it is, it seems really one-sided. I don't think lebron is even focused on that. I I do peep the mastery in that 3d chess move and going on. Pat McAfee, though I think again, I'm not criticizing what he should have done. I just would have thought that you would have undercut Stephen A's employer, espn, and went to Fox Sports and gave them the interview. That seemed to be a bigger power play, but I understand it's still a slight to Stephen A Smith on some levels I'm not getting into it.
Speaker 2:it very much feels like I'm a play in your face, in your house, after your show.
Speaker 1:I guess even maybe you look at it like that it's even more of a play than it would be going sitting at Fox Sports. But the whole conversation about who we should have sat down with, why he didn't choose to highlight his fellow athletes who are now part of the new media, black media like, let's not do that. This ain't that kind of conversation. This media, black media let's not do that. This ain't that kind of conversation. This wasn't the time for that. If you didn't see what LeBron was trying, the means he was trying to achieve, you're missing the entire point by making it about why he didn't go on a black podcast, All these black voices and his friends that could have used it. Stop it. They'll have ample opportunity once that man is done playing basketball to get his time.
Speaker 3:I'm going to land ball to get his time and I'm gonna land my plan on that. I don't know who else got the floor now, but that, yeah, it's much better than nothing what you got on it, bear. Where do I begin? I'll say this by starting by saying this. When I first I don't know if you guys remember we used to talk, we touched on it, I believe, last podcast, and it was merely because what only, the only thing that happened was lebron james approaching him at the beginning of the third quarter. That's all that had happened then.
Speaker 3:And then Stephen A Smith went on this tour. Once he, I guess, gathered his thoughts Because initially, listen, I thought it was going to be over. When he said you know, from a father's standpoint, you know, I understand, had he left it there, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But he decided, you know, after the fact and I think the problem is, he let comments get to him. He saw the comments of guys saying that dude was, did you see how tight he was? Did you see how stale all those things in his ego got to him? Then he started, you know, he proceeded to keep going on and you started seeing. Part of this went back to my initial comments, last you know, last podcast, when I, when everybody was looking at it from a standpoint of man he could critique and I said there's no problem, we could keep critiquing because, but we're entering, we're in this stage of entertainment. We're critiquing because, but we're entering, we're in this stage of entertainment and it's to the point where it overtook the actual basketball side of things. As far as being a commentator and keeping it within then, within that realm and within those lines, I think the issue was some of the things started to head towards more of a demonstrative. Look as far as the comments went with the Sun Because, if you notice, no one said anything about when he had some good games. They didn't say he had a great game.
Speaker 3:I always said I understand about the criticism, I understand that LeBron James helped put a target, but even then we always like to contort and things because lebron james said some but when he talked about the players, somehow went from some of the players to all the majority of the players and this comment initially when he said about his son being better than even that slight thing. I look at this thing when it when it happened right and and he went. I hate the fact that kendrick perkins, when he made it about race and he made it seem like that was what about this, what about that? And you could have helped him. He not only about him, about which platform he went to, which show he went to, but also for his podcast of having steve nash overtake saying you know, you could have had channing fry and all these other guys, and he was trying to allude to the fact it's about racism. I hated that. Like that's something that we got to cut out.
Speaker 3:If you, if it's not a clear cut case of that, one thing I will say is I didn't. I didn't expect anything less from the ESPN. Everybody that's employed by ESPN that go on the first take show because, listen, they understand what feeds them. So I didn't. I expected the comments to be what they were going to be and everybody helping out Stephen a, because initially they got on LeBron talking to every man. I heard Ryan Clark and everybody. Man, you went up to LeBron. You know LeBron, why didn't you go up to listen? You didn't go to skip. Why, to listen, you didn't go to skip, right, see, I knew what. See, we, we should have known them what they were trying to bring up.
Speaker 3:We knew that skip bayless wasn't even available right and when he went on a patent on the outside right and but, but by all accounts, stephen a smith is the one that said I ain't hard to find, I'm over, you know he came with all that bravado so lebron james caught you and he shook your draws and you were sitting there If I mean man, the means that came up out of that thing, because he didn't say a word, but not his head.
Speaker 3:It was almost like LeBron was like, if you understand, nod your head because he was too afraid to say yes, because it just seems like it was a one sided thing and he made it that way. But when he started talking about, I would have swung on him, even prefaced it by saying, oh, he would have whipped my ass. It don't really matter, brother, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't approach you with that energy like he was going to beat you up. But once again, that ego, you have to feed your ego and let's let's get, let's be real. I said this yes, chris, yesterday, chris, we were being, when we were having a conversation, chris, when we were having the conversation, I said he needs to thank LeBron because yet again, lebron has helped you out by you being able to speak about him and make this the front line.
Speaker 2:Even LeBron was hesitant on it. He was on the Pat McAfee show. He's going to be sitting there smiling ear to ear about me just saying his name.
Speaker 3:He barely addressed it. He had many other things that he addressed besides that. He kind of touched on it and moved on. Don't get me wrong LeBron James. We know he's always calculated and we know that the Fox was in the hen house. He knew what he was doing. But when I look at it, and then because at the time it was Perkins and it was Wendy Windhorse who was on the show, he caught the way that Truth be told.
Speaker 3:But even then though, yeah, but I'll say this Maybe it seems that way, because the way he speaks about LeBron, you think that they would have an intimate.
Speaker 2:There's a level of familiarity there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just because you've covered me doesn't mean we've been close, so that's what's been going on and, by all accounts, I was fooled into believing that.
Speaker 2:I thought that all man I thought it was closer too.
Speaker 3:Right. He must be having in-depth conversations, like, at the end of the day, like, trust me, I know. And when LeBron James comes out.
Speaker 1:He has kids barking at parties and shit.
Speaker 3:Right, Like me and him, we were on the phone. He asked my number. We talked you regular. When LeBron James came out and called him pretty much weird, like or not him, but just necessarily the situation is weird. You know what I mean. Like you're speaking to me and they use him and that's what they use them and that's taken, true, that's like his shtick and that's his, what he's known for.
Speaker 2:Everybody tags him as being the LeBron insider.
Speaker 3:And the fact that he is not a LeBron insider. He and the fact that he is not a LeBron insider, he's just been a guy that's I mean, when you think about it it's almost creepy the guy that's closely watched LeBron's career since high school. But you've never had a real close relationship to where you know somehow you're to be in his memoirs or something like that later down the line. You were just a guy that closely watched the game from a standpoint that was, you know, I guess, a little bit more in depth than the next person, but never enough to where you know what was going to happen or you knew you were privy to certain information before it came about that All LeBron James was doing was setting things straight. And also, I will say this that kind of gave me pause for a lot of things, because what made LeBron James do this?
Speaker 3:His 20-plus year career aside from a few times that he had interviews, you know the decision, things like that he really doesn't really run to the media. So that kind of had me looking at this whole situation. Is there something bigger? Because we know there's a Cal State, i's time to land this plane.
Speaker 3:I think so. Yeah, when you look at it, when you start looking at the moves that the Lakers made and how he didn't want to. You know, don't mortgage the future just so I could try to win. I think LeBron is happy with his career. Think about it. He was able to play. He can say he played with his son, he got that.
Speaker 3:He checked that box the Lakers. I think he tried and I think he's at a point now where he may be tired of it all. I think he can love the sport but still be like I'm ready to move on from it. And I think that he made this move with Luka and he knew it wasn't like getting a rookie. So if we don't win with this one, I put certain people in position. You know I got our coach the job, so we're, you know, everything's great for the future for him. We're having Luke and a lot of great young talent, and now I can move on from it and leave the Lakers in a great position for the future. It's not a shock if I would, let's say, after this year and I think he won't say it until after this year let's say they win the championship. I think he's going to probably, if not this year, most definitely think the following year that's going to be his going away tour. I just think that Stephen A Smith has, you know, blown this up more than what it needed to be.
Speaker 1:In true Stephen A fashion.
Speaker 3:I mean well, not to mention, like you said, credibility is shot, because that's what made it look bad is you were saying things. Once you start going outside the realm of basketball, I said, oh, brother, he struck an earth, and I always believe this in my true heart. There's something else underneath this, because for him going up to you and said what he said, because now everything is coming out and now, stephen A Smith, all these real feelings are coming out which you could have expressed this a long time ago. Why are you doing it now? And you're expressing, basically but this is your goat, yeah, this and that. And man, come on, man, check this out. We know he wasn't your goat the bringing up the Kobe situation.
Speaker 2:How did you not know? This got a little different to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Not only that, I knew that you bringing up situations, that brother, you are on the outside looking in. You don't know what really is really going on, because none of us know.
Speaker 3:We could say all we want to say yeah, he wasn't there for this and that, and I understand, from the outside looking in it could be a certain way, but I would like to believe that Dwayne Wade and LeBron James even if he did the way, he didn't like it they probably had a conversation about that and see. But this is the problem with Stephen H Smith. You are shooting yourself in the foot and I ask, cause? I believe by de facto, you have become the. You are well, at this point you are the new Skip Bayless and that's not a good thing. I think that, skip Bayless, because when you look at it, some of the things you're starting to do, you're going to cross a line that you can't return from and you know your takes are going to change, your takes are going to become. You know more or less about the player's actual game, more is it about who they are.
Speaker 3:I think that Stephen A Smith is teetering on a point where, yes, you've got the big contract and it's going to be about. And this, see, nobody brings this together, right? Nobody brings this together about what even Charles Barkley said and I was with Charles Barkley. I understand that Stephen A is saying that this is television, but at what point do you kind of got to keep the core of this. And this goes back to, when you look at it, men's basketball as a whole, because the women, they're making headlines for all the right reasons. Right, men's basketball is making headlines, whether it be about, you know, the too many threes, you know the way, the way the game, the style of play, all these things.
Speaker 3:And now you're looking at the commentary side of it. It is all coming to a culmination where something needs to be fixed because we're getting away from the core of commentating. Listen, I know we laughed at the whole shacking the food and things like that, but, man, come on. Now we're getting to a point where you're ostracizing and talking about players on a level other than man. He wasn't a great rebounder, but this dude was a buster and I can understand.
Speaker 3:If I was listen, if I was a professional basketball player, right, I'd be pissed off. A dude, talk to me like that, talk about my game, but when you start calling me a bum and all that, like bro, you can never be in my shoes and that it's almost a slap in the face. I've heard Gilbert Arena say something like I tend not to look at the bad things of a player because, listen, making it to the NBA is hard enough and to be great at is a whole nother thing. So I can look at the bad things and still look at the great things that they're doing. But guys like Stephen A, because of entertainment factor in television, they've gotten to a point where now like, look how far it's going. Like I said, you brought up Kobe to try to prove a point. You went that low until now, even like you're wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, that to me speaks to a bigger emotional outburst than anything where. But for somebody who's supposed to be so polished and, and at the top of your game, you throw out arguably the most sensitive topic that you know here in in la for people in la, because I don't even know that that was for lebron. That was to try and stir up something with the people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for you to be wrong right, and it's like that's, that's outside of what we're even talking about. That's when I kind of lost to try and stir up something with the people, yeah, and for you to be wrong, right, and it's like that's outside of what we're even talking about. That's when it kind of lost credibility for me. One, when we first talked about this, I hadn't seen the interview, I just saw little clips here and there and it was a reminder at how well media can spin a narrative, right, because my first impression was like both of you guys are kind of corny for jumping out here in this format where it's like look, you talk about it, address it, move on, but unless you're just trying to keep it going. But after I watched it, I agree it was very little. It was about hey, he went on his Taylor Swift tour. He might not like some of the words that were used, but it was absolutely true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't going to bring this up until the video surfaced. Okay, well, you still. In essence, what you admitted was you had plans. You had a plan in place for this. Stop playing in my face and pretending like I'm not reading what's happening, whereas I wasn't going to. But since the video came out. You just happened to have it ready, locked and loaded.
Speaker 1:So, like a real live chump, I gotta save face and that's what I gotta do.
Speaker 2:Worst case scenario. You had some thought around it. Secondly, I think there is a level of wrong on both sides where, yes, lebron has jumped out, even with the comments of you know, I think Bronny's better than some of these guys out here. That's a lot to put on, considering where he was in his career at that point, and I think that that needs to be something where it's like okay, that's a fair criticism and it could just be look a dad in a moment, or just somebody looking in a moment. And, yeah, it could have been the worst thing ever.
Speaker 2:No, but you have to be able to live with how somebody could take that the wrong way and go hey, somebody could take that the wrong way and go, hey, these guys have made it. You started looking at it because now you open yourself. If this was a court case, right, supreme Court pocket. If you open yourself to that, now you get to bring that in right In a court case. Hey, you made a way for this to now become okay, well, cool, since that's the case. Is he really a McDonald's All-American, is he really? And now you've given the naysayers a path to now dispute because of what you said.
Speaker 1:So I think from that standpoint yeah, it's now, now, it's, now, it's.
Speaker 2:It's completely fair game.
Speaker 3:I don't think that is that way.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it played a role in because now you're, you're putting a narrative out that matches and it benefits you, your camp, your son, at least in somebody's mind. So now you've, you've created a position. But Brian said, look, it's my point to stick up for the, for not only my family, but the players. Now here comes another. How many of the other players have you stood up for when things have gone wrong? We don't want to Right, well, but let's see. But no, no, no, no. But I'm saying it's those small things that people want to hang on to, and if you give somebody who wants to dare, don't, don't, don't, dare. Let me air out your dirty laundry, it's more to talk about this, let's not talk about this.
Speaker 2:And it became very much. I know where the skeletons are buried and it was like, well, that's, that's not even where we're going. I mean, that's what got. That's what got D'Angelo Russell in trouble as a young Laker, where it was like, hey, you've stepped out of the lines of what the issue is or what should be done. And to see somebody who is that seasoned, who depends on media, who depends on that relationship, part of the reason you got that huge contract is, yeah, because you are in places some of these other guys haven't been able to get to in years. For you to now jeopardize that because you lost a battle, you're willing to now put the war up. It's like, yeah, that's just not, it's not worth it. And it becomes. It becomes petty. And if he would have, I would have.
Speaker 2:Okay, where was that energy? That energy didn't match what we saw. So if that energy doesn't match the actual film, let's just. Let's just call it what it is. Hey, and he made some valid points. I don't have to like you, am I going to cover you? Yeah, you must see TV. You're one of the best athletes out there. But I thought just from that perspective.
Speaker 2:After watching the video, I was like, yeah, this, this wasn't. This, didn't have to take up as much as it did, and it went a little too far. It went a little too far, I mean, for you to come on the next day and have a whole 17-minute monologue without any breaks and everything, and then it became this I would do, I would. That man is 6'9". That is Thanos. There's no way you're about to swing on that man. What are you going to do? Hit him in his lower rib, stop.
Speaker 2:Why are we pretending that this was going to be Like stop, going to be 60 years old, like stop, let's. Let's not do this on camera, because for what both of you guys have done very well for yourselves you got your money you still gonna talk more. At least steven a is still going to address him, because it's literally why he got his money, and then we'll see where it goes from there. But yeah, it was it. It in in hindsight when, when you have all the details, to me personally it does look a little, a little worse on Stephen A In this particular case, but well, because, at the end of the day, listen, lebron James is going to be box office.
Speaker 3:How often does he speak to the media? So, from that viewpoint, they were, they were happy to hear him. The issue for me was see. This goes back to a bigger issue that I had. I understand, by all accounts, why they are going after Bronny, but the problem is this goes to show you that the NBA didn't have nothing better, where we were late in the second half of the season, still bringing up something that was really irrelevant. That's the issue I had, something that was really irrelevant. That's the issue I had.
Speaker 3:We LeBron listen, I think that the sportscasters and commentators have a duty to try to keep you know things fresh but the main thing was talking about the Lakers, which I understand that part and Bronny. Throughout the whole season, we didn't speak about the rookie, the great rookies that were playing. They got little shine this year and, like I said, for the first couple of weeks, month, two months you can talk about Bronnie. You're late in the season and the second half after the all-star break and we're still bringing it up Like it's relevant. That's the problem I had and that's what I knew. This isn't.
Speaker 3:This isn't see this is us really taking a given a chance to really go at LeBron by way of his son, because you don't listen. By all accounts, right, like I said, I never had a problem with them doing it, but I knew at some point no see, look where we're going, because you don't get this late in the season to still attack a 55th pick Like you don't do that and to keep going. That's what I'm saying where you had headlines. That's why I say, even in a preface, by saying the women, they were doing it right, they were making headlines for great things, the NBA right now. When you think about it, and now you add this to it, it is looking bad for men's basketball and we understand that Stephen A isn't just men's basketball, but they get a lot from that, from the headlines for basketball and going back and using the whole GOAT debate and going back and forth with that. So that was my whole thing.
Speaker 3:I didn't—excuse me, listen, listen. We can talk about LeBron James possibly being petty and things like that, but, like I said, I saw—man, he tried to egg and bring on and Wendy, you, your guy. That was so bad, come on now he he kind of egged on wind horse. You could tell you know when horse was trying to just listen. I'm gonna just pass it by, I'm not gonna really delve into it, but steven nate kept egging him on and just that's your guy. You come on, man, like it was so bad. Like I said when you, it was very and excuse me, women, when I say this, it was very feminine and and and my viewpoint that you went against all your credibility to try to prove a point. That's not something that men do.
Speaker 1:You know what men do and what it showed me. Ultimately, and on both sides. On some levels it shows the fragility of the male ego and what we'll do to protect it, especially our public personas. You know what I mean. Like that, unfortunately, there is some truth to that. It's just what it is. It's even a can he behave in a feminine manner at times? No doubt about that, but what he did at the root of it was the most masculine thing, which is to protect his own ego.
Speaker 3:But nobody expected him thinking, oh, you're going to breed up LeBron Everybody kind of it was all you know he got marked out, essentially on camera.
Speaker 1:He got marked out.
Speaker 3:But that's only because his mouth, prior to that, the way you kind of carried yourself in the bravado in which you carried yourself in. Had he not had that, nobody would have been like him.
Speaker 1:I'll give you that real quick, Because Stephen A is the first to be on some pull-up on me. You know where I'm at. I ain't hard to find Baby. I'm from New York. Yeah, he'd be on that heavy. No doubt about that that.
Speaker 3:Akron, ohio, bull came up to you and politely told you tuck the problem with it had he not been like that. That's what I said. That's when I say this, when and I'm serious when I say this he's on the, he's teetering on becoming a skip bayless and I don't want that for him. You know, I want him by all accounts. He's been successful thus far, but he is on a cusp because that's something that steve that says skip bayless would have done. He pulled a skip bayless move and honestly I'm gonna be honest with you guys I don't think this is over. I think he's going to there's.
Speaker 1:It definitely needs to be, because it can get really ugly.
Speaker 3:But, if you want to talk about something when they talk about blackmail and we're attacking each other. Don't it always happen at the end of the careers, where the careers are said and done? It wouldn't shock me if all these things come out about LeBron James as skeletons in the closet, because you talked about last week when there was accounts that Shaq or somebody rumors that Shaq was looking for info on Shannon Sharp. I think that we're in this round because, remember, there's two different sides.
Speaker 1:That's an unofficially official source. I think that we're in this round because, remember, there's two different sides. That's an unofficially official source. I won't even go. I wouldn't even went too far, yeah.
Speaker 3:but here's the thing, though. This is where we are Entertainment and basketball. We understand from a basketball standpoint. You know, alvin Silver kind of I think he's going to intervene if it continues to carry on, because he's already made a statement. But see, the thing is they're partners with ESPN, so they may not like it, but this is great for their partner. We may not like it, but this is great for ESPN. This is, I mean, the views that they got, the fact that people are going back right and that's unfortunate, you know.
Speaker 3:so you know. I hope they can get it together because it really is petty on both ends. I just hope that Stephen H Smith because, I listen, I don't hate Stephen H Smith I want him to be successful and continue to be successful. I just think he needs to backtrack. Don't. Don't do this again, because I think your credibility is teetering, boy. It's on thin ice right now, and I thought it was always on thin ice with these, with the new generation of players.
Speaker 1:So but aside from that, in this conversation, what I thought again, we talked about it earlier it's just my assessment. This is what I saw from my vantage point. It seemed as if Stephen a Brian wind horse, espn all his issues with people aside and the sports media, it seemed as if we were getting that glimpse of LeBron James that we've wanted you get it with his podcast right Now he's got a new one coming up with Steve.
Speaker 3:Nash, steve Nash, which is maybe it's just me.
Speaker 1:I feel like I know what people's moves are and their motivations and their intentions are. It seems as if he's trying to position Steve Nash for another NBA job and LeBron is using that leverage to do so. It worked out for JJ Redick. Why not for Steve Nash, who's had success as an NBA coach, to get another crack at it? Not that he needs it, but I'm sure it certainly wouldn't hurt to have an interview process over the course of a podcast season to other GMs and team owners, like, hey, this is my basketball mind on full display, in case you didn't know it. You know what I mean. And whatever he may have changed since his stint with the Brooklyn Nets, it's interesting. I mean, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:It makes sense, it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1:I mean and I'm sure you'll have conversations about that It'll come up why didn't he highlight a black player who wants to get into coaching, who could have used that? You'll get that. Who knows how that worked out, who knows what happened in the background? But to me we got not so much of an introspective, it wasn't a deep LeBron James, but it was good to see LeBron let it all hang out in an interview and it seemed to me, like I mentioned earlier, that seemed to be the vestiges of a player starting to enjoy the winter of his career and embrace the coming of his retirement and life after basketball. Because LeBron is incredibly personable and he comes across well on camera. You relate to him. He seems cool, he's polished, but he's not so sterilized that he's a professional in sports and radio and content creation. But LeBron, he does radiate that star quality, like he takes you back to the days of his early career when he was a really fun character in his commercials.
Speaker 2:The LeBrons, for example. Right yeah.
Speaker 1:He's showing us his personality. Maybe that's just LeBron trying to get the best and most mileage out of the end of his career and enjoy other aspects of his tenure as an NBA, as an icon, quite frankly. But I thought it was cool. For that reason I didn't take away the whole Stephen A thing. It was such a small part of the conversation. I think he did his part by by going to pat mcafee. That was his kind of slight to him, without focusing on it, you know, I mean he didn't need to again. I thought windhorse caught the worst stray he got. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I got choked, yeah yeah, yeah, weirdo, like I said, I just want to say this last quick thing. You guys I'm sorry, I just will say this sometimes as parents we do things for our kids to help them that others may not agree with, but you understand, it was necessary for it to happen and I will say I think that's what happened. I know he's in the league and he did what he thought was best for his situation, but he and honestly it looks like it's shown, I think that I think Bronny is playing much more loose in the league now as a result of that, because there's something to see your father stick up for you and keep that faith in you.
Speaker 1:And I think and like I said.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I get it from popular, it was unpopular what he had done and everything. But then again a lot of guys that say this they never had the opportunity to play with their son, either in the league either so I could be on the outside and say A lot of guys.
Speaker 1:He's literally the only person who has had that honor Right.
Speaker 3:So you hear them say I would let my. I said you know what, we would like to hope so. But for LeBron James and we have to put it we can't never forget what he saw, what happened to his son. You know being laying on the ground and you know heart stopping and things like that. I don't want to go through that. I don't know what that feels like, don't never know what it feels like. But the fact that he was able to stick up for his son and as long as his son got the message at the end of the day, you got to live with that and I think he's willing to live with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, all right. Last question before we get out of here. Last week we introduced something a little more fun, or just throwing something out there. This week's question, this segment. Fellows will never know what the question is, so what y'all think is the name of the segment? Quick question for you what is something you wish you had done in your 20s? What is something you wish you had done in your 20s? What y'all think I?
Speaker 1:mean, that's easy. Who's going first? What's that? That's easy? Travel Like, really? Yeah, as much as I wanted to see, like Brazil and London, that was my opportunity to do it Like you'll never be more free than when you're childless, yeah, when you're unmarried, uncommitted to anything, I could move around freely from job to job, from place to place, it didn't matter. But I wish I would gone out and really saw the part, at least the parts of the world that I wanted to see. There ain't but a few places I just really was dying to see, some for great reasons, some for not so good reasons, but I really wanted to see it.
Speaker 1:I had to see Brazil, right. I still want to see it in this lifetime Now, for different reasons, because I have an affinity for Brazilian music and the culture I just love.
Speaker 2:Brazil. I love everything about it.
Speaker 1:I love their translation of, like American music and I don't know. It's just they got a beautiful language, beautiful beaches, beautiful people. Yeah, it seems like a great place, the UK and a few other places. But other than that, like I regret not doing that because you don't get a chance to do it once you get a family, and not just for the the financial aspect of it. It's very expensive. I mean, raising a family and being, you know, having a family is an expensive undertaking. Like financially it is a very, very much a financial affair.
Speaker 1:But you factor in like international travel with a family and you got to take in the fact that you got kids and a wife who ain't really hot on getting an airplane. You never really going to convince them until they're comfortable doing it. You got to wait for them. But it's like you still want to go see things, you still want to go do stuff, but you're limited by that because you gotta take it into consideration like you can't just do what you want to do. Like you, you have to consider your children, your wife and what they're they're comfortable with, where they want to go, and a lot of times, as a man at least, you sacrifice a lot of what you want to do for what your family wants to do, because most, if not all, of what we do as a family is what they want to do. Trust me If I never see the inside of another amusement park for a million years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're like life's good.
Speaker 1:Life is great. You know what I mean. Like that's an accomplishment in and of itself. Like the things they want to do I have little to no interest in. But I got to kind of pony up the money. I got to really put on my game face. I got to pretend to enjoy it. I got to make sure they have a good time, but it ain't what I want to do. Like 99.9% of the shit I just would never want to do I'm not interested in doing. I'm forcing them but you know I love my family enough to do that for them.
Speaker 1:But the single man having to worry about that man, I would have been all up and through the's like the main thing I would have. I mean there are other things as well, but I mean I wish I just would have been more. I'd recognize just how free I was. But in that aspect in particular, travel would have been. But I didn't realize just how free I was, like how I was unbound by anything, really anybody's expectations. I didn't even care about that in my 20s but I was unbound by real obligation, real responsibility and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:You lose sight of that, that one thing about your 20s in America, I will say young folks, if you can hear me, you're under the command of my voice. Understand this one thing you have the luxury. In this country, this country only you can do some good fucking up in your 20s and recover. That cannot be said for most of society outside of this one. Recover that cannot be said for most of society outside of this one. You can do a good amount of damage short of throwing away your life and your freedom, but you can.
Speaker 1:Even then I mean dudes who go to prison. Those are some of the most model citizens in my experience. Guys I've known who go to prison early and lose most of their freedoms and their late teens and twenties. When they come out they're pretty well reformed and they hit the ground running because they've lost the most pivotal time of their lives. So, short of that, you can bounce back from anything. But when you realize just how free you are, how, how little obligation you really have to anybody but yourself, that's your time to be selfish, and I wish I would have taken that more and I would have had less fear of the world and fear of failure, because if you fail at that point you're not falling from great heights, you'll be all right. Yeah, you falling through a couple of stairs. You know what I mean. You'll scrape your knee. You'll get back up and keep it moving.
Speaker 2:I wish I would have understood that, and the nice thing is is you got a bunch of people failing around you too, so you guys are all picking each other up, right? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm not failing with a family on my back.
Speaker 1:I'm not jumping out of a plane without a parachute. With my wife and kids I'm jumping off a couple of steps and if it hurts a little bit, hey again, you'll recover, you'll be all right. I wish I would have been fully under. It's hard in hindsight realize how much you didn't grasp the freedom in your 20s until you know. For those who got it, I'm damn near envious. God bless you. For those of you understand it now you know what I mean. You gotta wait for hindsight to kick in and you just like fuck it. I'm gonna fly by the seat of my pants, let it all hang out. I'm gonna drop my balls and live my life. You got it, you got the right idea.
Speaker 1:Continue to do you. What about you bear?
Speaker 3:very similar. Much of the same, I will say that most of us have been conditioned to think a certain way, coming out of high school right from our parents, and once you live life and been through some things, you realize that we love our parents but their view was very old school and not, I won't say, realistic. It was realistic for them. But when you think about having the freedom being young, being in your 20s, trying to figure it out, messing up, you know, making mistakes, learning from those mistakes, and I think it helps you become a much more well-rounded person, especially as a male, to kind of figure yourself out Cause. Part of that, all that is the journey of figuring yourself out right and to have these experiences that help shape and mold you, then going from there to starting to settle down and understand Cause for a man, your whole thing, your whole journey, is to find, realize your purpose and to go after that purpose. You know what your purpose is and through that you know the steps of realizing. Okay, I'm in my mid-20s, I'm, you know, trying to reach these goals. I'm learning about myself than I did in my early 20s, to where you start to round off and put yourself in position, which in turn makes it better for your mate, because you're not going into a situation where you don't fully understand and know yourself. And now you're bringing another person along for the ride, not just other children, eventually, but another person. I understand now why people that did it, you know they went about it a different way that waited till their 30s to have a child because they were in every aspect of their life, seemingly you're supposed to be, or at least they, you know. I hope they were. They were much more stable, which I'm not financially, mentally, spiritually, they were already on their journey. They understand what their purpose is and bringing into, you know, not only a child, but in a relationship you can be more stable for them. And I understand all these things now because you know our parents, you know a lot of us. You know when you retire, you get to do all these things and we take for granted that. Who say that? Who's going to say we're going to have, you know, later on, later on, it's something that is unknown right now. It is, you know, just to have those experiences. I have a coworker he's much older and you know he was telling me I was in my twenties man. I, you know, on my Harley I would just ride to New York and I lived in Queens for like a year just on my bike, found work, did this, then moved to the Florida Keys and drove out the. You know just the experiences that he had that he would never change for a million years. It helped shape him, it helped you know him to understand.
Speaker 3:You know, because we have to get outside of our box.
Speaker 3:A lot of us have not left our box you know what I mean and we still, even in our relationships and marriages and with children, we truly, some, some of us, truly don't know ourselves a hundred percent because we left a lot on the table.
Speaker 3:There's a lot to you know. There's a lot that we didn't do and we know we're kind of, some of us are sending, you know, our family through it because we're really not happy with ourselves. We're in a, we're in a relationship of marriage with children and you're not 100% happy because the things that you didn't do and I'm not certain things listen, it's too late but the opportunities, because now you have too many responsibilities, you have all these responsibilities and it's just not in the cards for you to still be able to do that. So the freedom, like you said, andre, that is like my biggest thing. If I could go back, I mean even amongst us, to have the time, for we just would have that. You know, we always talk about it all moving in together, what you know what, what would that look like, that apartment?
Speaker 2:To have those ups and downs, two, three years where we're just figuring it out. Yeah, I think that would have been fun.
Speaker 3:You know figuring out, having fun, you know going through your ups and downs and you know looking back on that. I think you know and hopefully I don't. You know misstep when I say I speak for all of us that it seems like we went from 18 to here. You know life hits everyone but it seemed like it went like it just fast forwarded and it was just like boom, we are here. You know what I mean. A lot of us, I mean all of us.
Speaker 3:We're talking about married, young, you know, been in relationships, didn't even get to live that at that part of the young man's life that I want, you know, my sons, to live is without responsibilities, without children, is without responsibilities without children. Honestly, I tell my children as they were getting older I want you to be in a place where you can be selfish, not in a bad way, but be selfish unto yourself, and so you can experience, so you don't leave anything on a table that you're going to regret later. You know what I mean. And we can do this and hold some fun. I'm not talking about break the law or anything like that, but I do want you to really experience and have fun and take in all, what life has?
Speaker 3:A lot of us haven't really even lived life. We've been really surviving all these years but never really can say I lived life at all. I mean not even a third of it. You think about it when you think about the things that you wanted to do, or things that you thought that you wanted to do, and never have yet to even do some of the things. It don't have to be anything crazy. It can be like, man, I've never been out of my state and out the country, I've never been to that basketball game, all these things. You know what I mean. And we don't get those times. We don't. We don't get some of that time back because you don't know what the future holds. We like to think that we're going to live a long. I mean man. Our parents, you know, went by the old school. My mother thought when she retired oh, I'm going to Please. When it comes to travel, it's like, yeah, getting out of bed and going to the store is like fun, that's it.
Speaker 1:That was travel, but this mindset you thought that I was going to retire and become this person, that I was going to have all this experience late in my 60s.
Speaker 3:That was a meek and a monty Carlo. It's not realistic. It's not realistic. It sounds good, I think. That's that. That's just that. Cliches. You know conversation, everybody, everybody. You know sayings, everybody always has. And you always think you know when you retire is when I'm enjoying myself and you realize retirement is just that. And now I see I start to understand and see why a lot of people that I work with, like man, you have 30-something, 40 years, you have the age you can retire why not? Because they realize there's nothing left. This is it. Coming to work is the biggest thing. Besides that, there's nothing left. So that's my thing.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, I think we all and it's probably based on something you mentioned there we're all kind of like-minded same path, same journey. But yeah, just that component of having a little more time to be, just that apartment phase, when we finally get to telling you our adventures, you'll realize a lot more why that would have been something we would have clung to. But yeah, that was that was. That was good time, but another good one in the books, fellas. If that's it, we'll see you next time as if for me as if you were buried.
Speaker 2:You got anything else man. I, yeah, should probably tell them where to find us. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share all the things Go hit your YouTube y'all at the Supreme court.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's. That's not easy enough. I don't know what else to tell you. I mean, you just don't want to find us. You know what I mean. I hope that ain't the case at YouTube at the Supreme court, at our access, at Supreme Court basketball, at YouTube at Supreme Court basketball, our website, at Buzzsprout, the Supreme Court basketball dot. Buzzsprout dot com. If you care to find us there and anywhere you can get your your podcast, just look up Supreme Court basketball podcast. We should pop up, we should appear and be there, we should be in there like butthair, as it were.
Speaker 3:Yeah, check us out, check us out, be there. We should be in there like butt hair, as it were. Check us out, check us out y'all. Yeah, please do, and again your comments.
Speaker 1:Your feedback is probably more than anything. I would appreciate your feedback. The donations are great. If you want to do that on our website, Let us know what you're feeling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let us know what you're feeling. Your comments and your feedback, as well as your likes and subscribes, are cool, but I want to know what the feedback is, because I really want to get better at this. This is the one thing that I found in my life in my late years that I want to be good enough at that. I strive to be better at every time I step out and do it, so that matters to me. If it means anything to you, give me that feedback. I'd appreciate it greatly.
Speaker 3:And with that, that's all I got to say. I'm out for the week, we out. That sounds good.